The USA can't even kill properly anymore.

[YYC in LAX]

I'm neither for nor against capital punishment, but one interesting fact is it actually costs more money to execute a criminal than it does to keep him or her in jail for life...largely due to the cost and time of legal proceedings.

Extremely sad story for the victim and her family. Just a horrific way to go so my sympathy is with them and certainly not with Lockett. However, as certain US states will certainly continue with capital punishment, I think they should ensure they get it right.

[DuffMan]

How about public hangings at the local soccer field, like they do in the ME, it's a real family event.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Regulator75

Put it on PPV too.

Game of Thrones is on HBO

[ernie]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

Couldn't they get enough electricity to their chair or something?

Interesting note...electric chair and I believe firing squad are options under oklahoma law. Electric chair if lethal injection is found to be unconstitutional (good bet that day may be coming) and firing squad if both the other methods are deemed unconstitutional. They moved to lethal injection when they did because of the cost of fixing the broken electric chair.

I'm not particularly for capital punishment for the main reason that there are so many death row inmates that get exonerated. A study released on Monday suggests that 4% are innocent. There will ALWAYS be people on death row that are innocent. I don't subscribe to the philosophy that such collateral damage is reasonable. I think that's totally unacceptable.

I also think that if you are to expect the inmate and society as a whole to follow the laws and respect the constitution then the governments ought to do the same. So while I don't shed much of a tear for this guy suffering in this manner I do shed a tear for those that brush it off as nothing. It isn't nothing. It's a direct violation of the 8th ammendment. You don't get to pick and chose which ammendments you want to respect. This isn't like the right to bear arms where one can argue the shades of grey as to what that means in terms of the types of weapons you can have. This is a guy, however evil he may be, writhing in pain because the drugs provided him did not work and the execution protocols exploded his veins so that the drugs were not delivered in any sort of efficient manner to ensure quick death. There is no grey. It was cruel and unusual.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

How about public hangings at the local soccer field, like they do in the ME, it's a real family event.

You can pack a lunch and make a day of it...

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Locke

You can pack a lunch and make a day of it...

There are clowns, face painters, and balloon twisters.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by cancer man

The perfect organ donors..

Your posts are not good.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

There are clowns, face painters, and balloon twisters.

Clowns? I'd probably rather take my chances with the cocktail...

[CaptainCrunch]

Well this case has just become the basis for every supreme court appeal of a death penalty under the concept of cruel and usual punishment. When they were having trouble with dissolved cynaide gas every convict on death row that was sentenced to death by gassing used it.

Same with electric chair, even though I would think the proper application of high voltage electricity to the brain would snap you off like a light.

Lets be honest, there's no kind way to effectively kill someone or a humane way to end someone's life. every method is going to cause either physical or psychological suffering.

Personally I think the cruelest part of the punishment is making someone wait in a cell for 20 years to die with dates of execution coming and going.

I'm fine with the death penalty as long as the guilt is assured, and its a truly monstrous crime, ie violent crimes against children or the vulnerable leading to death, or multiple time killers.

Probably the only uncruel way to kill them is some hideous bugs bunny method where they blind fold you, drug you and drop a 50 ton safe on you..

Or on the sanity side the old soviet visit to the warden.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Well this case has just become the basis for every supreme court appeal of a death penalty under the concept of cruel and usual punishment. When they were having trouble with dissolved cynaide gas every convict on death row that was sentenced to death by gassing used it.

Same with electric chair, even though I would think the proper application of high voltage electricity to the brain would snap you off like a light.

Lets be honest, there's no kind way to effectively kill someone or a humane way to end someone's life. every method is going to cause either physical or psychological suffering.

Personally I think the cruelest part of the punishment is making someone wait in a cell for 20 years to die with dates of execution coming and going.

I'm fine with the death penalty as long as the guilt is assured, and its a truly monstrous crime, ie violent crimes against children or the vulnerable leading to death, or multiple time killers.

Probably the only uncruel way to kill them is some hideous bugs bunny method where they blind fold you, drug you and drop a 50 ton safe on you..

Or on the sanity side the old soviet visit to the warden.

How do you do that though? Is there ever a system where it's 100% assured? And if we could change a system to do that, wouldn't it make the whole process easier? We'd have done it already, no?

I agree the waiting period could be the worst part of the deal, it would be for me. On the other hand, some people may really want that time, and there has been more than one example where people really make use of that time in a good way.

[CaptainCrunch]

I think we're further ahead then we were even lets say 10 years ago, with the advancements of DNA evidence.

I think if you've got a case with motive, witness, DNA evidence, and any other material evidence, its one that you could feel good going to a death penalty phase with.

Its the cases that we've seen pre dna where there are gaps in the chain of evidence and the credibility of witnesses that are still going through to death penalty hearings that are the issue.

[calgarywinning]

4% to 6% are on Death Row are innocent. Doesn't this make the state a willing participant in the crime they are punishing. Humans are fallible.

[MarchHare]

The standard is already "guilty beyond any reasonable doubt" and yet juries still sometimes get it wrong.

If you're in favour of the death penalty, then you are by extension in favour of a subset of capital punishment cases resulting in innocent people being executed. What's a reasonable percentage for such "collateral damage"? One percent? Five percent? For me it's zero percent, and as a consequence I'm staunchly opposed to state-sanctioned execution.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I think we're further ahead then we were even lets say 10 years ago, with the advancements of DNA evidence.

I think if you've got a case with motive, witness, DNA evidence, and any other material evidence, its one that you could feel good going to a death penalty phase with.

Its the cases that we've seen pre dna where there are gaps in the chain of evidence and the credibility of witnesses that are still going through to death penalty hearings that are the issue.

To do that however though, you'd have to admit and implement a system where there is two types of guilt, or guilty verdicts. Guilty, and so undeniably guilty that you can kill the person.

Not sure how a system can do that. Opens up a HUGE can. Think of all the people on the first list. 'So what, I'm guilty but there may be a mistake?'

And eventually, you know there'd be a slip up on the other list too. Might be the perfect frame, but it'd happen. And from there, the whole system just goes downhill. Juries are confused enough as it is, they wouldn't know what to do in that situation.

[MarchHare]

As an aside, I find it interesting that the people who support the death penalty also tend to be the people most likely to believe "the government can't be trusted to do anything right". How odd that they think the government always gets it wrong except when it comes to prosecuting capital punishment cases.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

As an aside, I find it interesting that the people who support the death penalty also tend to be the people most likely to believe "the government can't be trusted to do anything right". How odd that they think the government always gets it wrong except when it comes to prosecuting capital punishment cases.

You're talking about two seperate governments, in most cases. States execute at a much, much higher rate than the federal government does and I think when most people don't trust the government to do anything right they are talking about the Feds.

That said, I've moved completely away from support of the death penalty for the reasons you stated above. One innocent man executed is a thousand too many.

At the same time, I have absolutely no sympathy for Mr. Lockett and what happened during his execution has zero impact on how I feel about the issue. However, the administering government is responsible for protecting the consitutional rights of Mr. Lockett, which I believe we will find out in the court system that they did not do adequately.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

The standard is already "guilty beyond any reasonable doubt" and yet juries still sometimes get it wrong.

If you're in favour of the death penalty, then you are by extension in favour of a subset of capital punishment cases resulting in innocent people being executed. What's a reasonable percentage for such "collateral damage"? One percent? Five percent? For me it's zero percent, and as a consequence I'm staunchly opposed to state-sanctioned execution.

AFAIK the best statistical estimates so far puts the number of innocents at 4%, minimum.

Personally, with all the scandals of the US justice system, my guess is that the number is even higher. It's an unbelievably crappy system by most standards, expensive and ineffective.

EDIT: Link

[T@T]

The point of this thread is getting lost, my point was 43 minutes is an extremely long time for someone to suffer. Even in the days when they wanted you to suffer it wasn't that long.

William Wallace in year 1300 or so took about 10 minutes to die after being gibbed and ripped apart, Everyone freaks on Iran today because they hang people without breaking the neck and let them suffer through suffocation but yet they die within 5 minutes.

If they can't figure out a human way...end it.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Itse

AFAIK the best statistical estimates so far puts the number of innocents at 4%, minimum.

Personally, with all the scandals of the US justice system, my guess is that the number is even higher. It's an unbelievably crappy system by most standards, expensive and ineffective.

EDIT: Link

Probably double, Really I'm not sure who's worst, cops or prosecutors..a good percentage of them belong in jail themselves..