Canadian legislator calls U.S. "idiots"

[CaptainCrunch]

And I don't like Rob Ander's anymore than the rest of you do, but you have to ask the reason why he didn't want to give Mandela a honorary citizenship? Is it because he's racist? doubtful. Maybe he didn't like the fact that Mandela's ANC party was a terrorist group linked to bombings and murders.


Hmmmm makes you think

[Deelow]

Originally posted by Cowboy@Aug 26 2004, 08:38 PM

I said it was the most professional party we had.

and he outlined exactly why they are not.

They are probably the least professional out of the parties, but the ring thief has given them a run for their money.

[CaptainCrunch]

Sorry that you feel that way. But you lost credibility with me when you started name calling.
I said it was the most professional party we had.

I don't feel the same way about the conservatives.

I would rather have my PM lie about talking to one than have my premier get busted making fun of one

What name calling? There's no name calling in my post period.

I'd rather see a honest politician than a stupid politician, and the liberals have been stupid for a long time. But its sad that Canadian's have proven to be a little bit dumber for continually voting them back into office.

Like the Liberals, the Conservatives have members that are less than smart. but the minute that you become the governing party you need to act like it, and the Liberals have failed at this again and again. If you want to know why Canada is becoming such a sad sack nation, maybe you should ask your MP for an explanation.

[Cowboy]

You called people Stupid for voting for them....that is name calling

http://www.voteoutanders.com

I know this is not the best source but, they have sources backing up their claims.

Another one!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Klein


In power and not acting like a professional "eastern bums and scums"

I don't view my Country as a sad sack nation. I wouldn't even want to hear my MP spew crap out of his mouth. Not worth my time....

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by Cowboy@Aug 26 2004, 09:04 PM
You called people Stupid for voting for them....that is name calling

http://www.voteoutanders.com

I know this is not the best source but, they have sources backing up their claims.

Aren't we hyper sensitive, me calling Canadian Stupid for putting up with the liberals is hardly name calling, its more like a classification than anything else. I've singled out no individual member of this board with that term, even though I've wanted to on many hundreds of occassions.

Rob Ander's has his opinions, and I'm willing to respect somebody who sticks to those convictions. He believes that Mandela was a communist and terrorist and therefore wants nothing to do with it, he knew that the house of commons was going to vote unanimously so he filed a protest vote. Good for him.

The ANC was receiving funding from the soviets, and did have a communist slant, that can't even be debated. did Mandela's ANC blow up railway tracks, and buildings, were they in on the murder of police, and other people. Yes, and because Mandela was the leader of this group even in a spiritual way he is linked to terrorism.

conversely Mandela had everything to do with the collapse of a racist regime in south africa, and should be honoured for it, but if Ander's feels as strongly as he did about the whole situation then good for him, I repect him more for that then if he just sat on his butt and voted with the majority like a wet noodle.

[Cowboy]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch+Aug 26 2004, 03:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CaptainCrunch @ Aug 26 2004, 03:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Cowboy@Aug 26 2004, 09:04 PM
You called people Stupid for voting for them....that is name calling

http://www.voteoutanders.com

I know this is not the best source but, they have sources backing up their claims.

Aren't we hyper sensitive, me calling Canadian Stupid for putting up with the liberals is hardly name calling, its more like a classification than anything else. I've singled out no individual member of this board with that term, even though I've wanted to on many hundreds of occassions.

Rob Ander's has his opinions, and I'm willing to respect somebody who sticks to those convictions. He believes that Mandela was a communist and terrorist and therefore wants nothing to do with it, he knew that the house of commons was going to vote unanimously so he filed a protest vote. Good for him.

The ANC was receiving funding from the soviets, and did have a communist slant, that can't even be debated. did Mandela's ANC blow up railway tracks, and buildings, were they in on the murder of police, and other people. Yes, and because Mandela was the leader of this group even in a spiritual way he is linked to terrorism.

conversely Mandela had everything to do with the collapse of a racist regime in south africa, and should be honoured for it, but if Ander's feels as strongly as he did about the whole situation then good for him, I repect him more for that then if he just sat on his butt and voted with the majority like a wet noodle. [/b][/quote]
So you respect a conservative that speaks his mind, right or wrong. But you don't respect a Liberal who does???

I don't respect either for what they have said, I think they both should be gone...

[CaptainCrunch]

You called people Stupid for voting for them....that is name calling

http://www.voteoutanders.com

I know this is not the best source but, they have sources backing up their claims.

Another one!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Klein


In power and not acting like a professional "eastern bums and scums"

I don't view my Country as a sad sack nation. I wouldn't even want to hear my MP spew crap out of his mouth. Not worth my time....

This post has been edited by Cowboy on Aug 26 2004, 09:10 PM

Nice double standard you have going there, you castigate Ralph for a scum and bum statement that he made years ago, but its ok for Liberal MP's and our former prime minister to say what they want.

Klein has made two pretty startling statements. The scums and bums speech, and the homeless shelter incident, and he was beaten down for it by the press on both incidences. The Liberal's have a contest for idiot of the week going, and your willing to accept it and call it professional. Your also willing to judge the conservatives on a much higher standard then the libs based on what you said about professionalism, but its harder to judge since we haven't seen Harper in power anywhere.

[CaptainCrunch]

So you respect a conservative that speaks his mind, right or wrong. But you don't respect a Liberal who does???

I don't respect either for what they have said, I think they both should be gone...

I did not say that, I said that your willing to judge Ander's on one standard, but the Liberal's on a much lower one.

Its ok according to you for the occassional slip up, which you can ignore because you see the Liberal's as being much more professional.

But when Ander's stands up for something he's not being professional.

I basically stated that I have no problem with what Ander's did, because he knew that vote was going to pass and he wanted to have his protest on record.

The Liberal MP with tourrettes on the other hand has previously called american's idiots, and stated that she hated the bas**rds, then went out and did it again. She's not protesting anything, she's just displaying that she's anti american (probably to garner votes) and that it period.


Just like the Liberal MP who accused people in Kelowa of burning crosses. Whats she protesting there? Nothing she's displaying ignorance and thats all.

the Conservatives might have some ultra right wing wacko's but at least we know where they stand because they state what they stand for. The only thing that the Liberal's have done is show that they will stand for whatever gets them the most votes.

So which party is more reprehensible?

[Cowboy]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch@Aug 26 2004, 03:19 PM
You called people Stupid for voting for them....that is name calling

http://www.voteoutanders.com

I know this is not the best source but, they have sources backing up their claims.

Another one!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Klein


In power and not acting like a professional "eastern bums and scums"

I don't view my Country as a sad sack nation. I wouldn't even want to hear my MP spew crap out of his mouth. Not worth my time....

This post has been edited by Cowboy on Aug 26 2004, 09:10 PM

Nice double standard you have going there, you castigate Ralph for a scum and bum statement that he made years ago, but its ok for Liberal MP's and our former prime minister to say what they want.

Klein has made two pretty startling statements. The scums and bums speech, and the homeless shelter incident, and he was beaten down for it by the press on both incidences. The Liberal's have a contest for idiot of the week going, and your willing to accept it and call it professional. Your also willing to judge the conservatives on a much higher standard then the libs based on what you said about professionalism, but its harder to judge since we haven't seen Harper in power anywhere.

Hold on I am defending the fact that you think everybody should vote for the someone other than the Liberals, and if not they are stupid.

During the election, Harper was on constant damage control for Idiot of the Day, so both parties have their morons. I never said it was ok, infact I think she should be out, great if you don't agree with the Americans, but the English language gives people ample opportunity to reword thoughts.


"Shoot Shovel and Shut Up" "Not withstanding clause" I would say that was a little moronic for Klein to say. I am not that Anti Klein (believe it or not I will probably vote for him). You brought up all these examples with the Liberals that happened years ago and then you right off Kleins statements that happened years ago. So I think you have a double standard.

Anders, you think the only thing Anders has done in his political career is vote against Mandela's citizenship...There are plenty more, plenty. Its in the Website.

I am conservative liberal,
p.s.
I said they were the most professional not that they were professional so don't change my words

[CaptainCrunch]

Hold on I am defending the fact that you think everybody should vote for the someone other than the Liberals, and if not they are stupid.

And I firmly believe that Canadian's are foolish to continually elect a party that has stepped on thier own feet and have blown our money like drunken sailors in port on liberty and the east continually puts them back into power because they're frightened that they'll lose thier eastern advantage if a western party comes in. To me that sounds stupid

During the election, Harper was on constant damage control for Idiot of the Day, so both parties have their morons. I never said it was ok, infact I think she should be out, great if you don't agree with the Americans, but the English language gives people ample opportunity to reword thoughts.

Yes I don't disagree, however like I stated before, Harper was in damage control due to a spill over from beliefs. Martin is in damage control because his people are idiotic at best.

"Shoot Shovel and Shut Up" "Not withstanding clause" I would say that was a little moronic for Klein to say. I am not that Anti Klein (believe it or not I will probably vote for him). You brought up all these examples with the Liberals that happened years ago and then you right off Kleins statements that happened years ago. So I think you have a double standard.

Again two different things. Klein said shoot shovel and shutup, and bought up the not withstanding clause as examples of political belief. As oppossed to a woman shooting off her mouth about cross burning or another one calling our closest friends and allies idiots, because she is nothing more than an anti american zealot. there's a big difference

Anders, you think the only thing Anders has done in his political career is vote against Mandela's citizenship...There are plenty more, plenty. Its in the Website.

Yes that is one thing that Ander's is done, and its considered his biggest blunder. I'm just stating the fact that I don't feel like its that much of a blunder. He made his opinion known, and laid it out there and took the heat and critisism for it. good for him. Who does it hurt in the long run? Rob Ander's, but at least he's not bandwagonning for the cause of the day

I am conservative liberal,
p.s.
I said they were the most professional not that they were professional so don't change my words

You can't even put the word professional in there, the liberal's and professional are an oxymoron.

[FlamesAllTheWay]

Originally posted by Cowboy+Aug 26 2004, 01:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cowboy @ Aug 26 2004, 01:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

I will let the clown comment go, but what I can't stand is the fact that you say the Liberals running their mout. Outside of this and a few other slip ups they are the most proffesional party we have. How many people in the Conservative party have said stuff they should not have, it was rampit in the election race. Ie. Rob Anders, being the only voter to vote agains Nelson Mandela's honorary citizen ship is a way bigger deal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Anders

How about your Premier Ralph Klein....need I say more

So don't go off on the whole party because of one moron...and if you do, do it. Take a look at your mess of an opposition.

Edit: changed post could not find anything to back it up[/b]

Excuse me for holding the Liberal party to a slightly higher standard than it's opposition parties. This is the party that has had 2 majority governments and has the most seats in this minority government. This party has basically been the voice of Canada for the last decade and when they say something, it rings alot louder down south, and everywhere else, than anything an opposing party says.

I also never defended any other party, or said that it was okay if their members make stupid comments like that. It's not, and there is no place for that garbage in politics. But since you are singling out the Conservative Party, I agree that they have their more 'outspoken' members too. Anders and White, to name a few. I find it funny, though, that when a member of the Conservatives makes a stupid comment the reaction is "Ooooh, the scary Conservatives are showing their true colors. They must have a hidden agenda they're going to impose on us if they get into power. They must be stopped!" But if a Liberal says it, it's an isolated "slip-up."

<!--QuoteBegin-CaptainCrunch@

And I firmly believe that Canadian's are foolish to continually elect a party that has stepped on thier own feet and have blown our money like drunken sailors in port on liberty and the east continually puts them back into power because they're frightened that they'll lose thier eastern advantage if a western party comes in. To me that sounds stupid
[/quote]
Exactly.

<!--QuoteBegin-Cowboy

Outside of this and a few other slip ups they are the most proffesional party we have.
[/quote]
Most proffessional party we have? What's our opposition, a pack of monkeys throwing feces at eachother? If the Liberal's are the most proffesional party we have, this country is in big, big trouble...

[Cowboy]

Well I wouldn't define Rob Anders beliefs as "slip-ups" that is for sure. Parrish is a moron and I think she should be out. You attacked the whole liberal party for something Parrish said, I went back and defended them by pointing out the fact that Conservatives do the same thing (yes most of their mistakes are waaayyyy bigger).

[FlamesAllTheWay]

Originally posted by Cowboy@Aug 27 2004, 01:50 AM
Well I wouldn't define Rob Anders beliefs as "slip-ups" that is for sure. Parrish is a moron and I think she should be out. You attacked the whole liberal party for something Parrish said, I went back and defended them by pointing out the fact that Conservatives do the same thing (yes most of their mistakes are waaayyyy bigger).

See I guess where we differ is that I don't see the fact that some Conservative members say dumb things as a defense for someone from the Liberal Party saying dumb things. A few members from both party's need to smarten up.

Anyways, i'm extremely against the Liberal Party (if you couldn't already tell) and this just gave me an excuse to rant on about them a bit. If this were an isolated incident of Liberal stupidity, I would not be making such a fuss about it. But this stuff, along with all the scandals, wasteful programs, etc, is nothing new and just shows how unproffessional this party is and unfit it is to lead the country, in my view.

I mean really, is anyone shocked or suprised when something like this, or any other scandal or stupid program reveals itself? I know i'm not, and I think that is a bad thing when you are talking about the party that is leading the country...

[WCE]

It's really interesting how idiotic comments from the conservative party (formerly the Alliance) create such a stigma about the party but the Liberals in JC teflon-like fashion are able to distinguish their party's core values from the occasional party member's outburst.

Interesting...

[Thunderball]

WCE, I think too many people just have an inherent fear of change and see the Conservative as the Great Western Bogeyman. Some people just don't like the policies, but some just don't like change. Its like the parents of a problem child, willing to sacrifice anything to look the other way and pretend it isn't so.

Thats why the Liberals get away with everything, people want to believe they are a good party, cause the opposite scares them for whatever reason.

Not to mention the Liberals do reflect some people's bigotry towards the States. (not gonna drop the "r" bomb, but under strict definition of the word...)

[moon]

Originally posted by Cowboy@Aug 26 2004, 09:33 PM

"Shoot Shovel and Shut Up" "Not withstanding clause" I would say that was a little moronic for Klein to say.

What was stupid about him saying either of those things.

They were both the popular thoughts of those issues amongst his supporters. Just because Easterners and Liberals did not like them do not make them stupid.

They are two of my favorite quotes by Klein and solidify my and many other Albertans (you know the only people's opinion he really has to care about) support of him.

[WCE]

Originally posted by Thunderball@Aug 27 2004, 06:55 PM
WCE, I think too many people just have an inherent fear of change and see the Conservative as the Great Western Bogeyman. Some people just don't like the policies, but some just don't like change. Its like the parents of a problem child, willing to sacrifice anything to look the other way and pretend it isn't so.

Thats why the Liberals get away with everything, people want to believe they are a good party, cause the opposite scares them for whatever reason.

Not to mention the Liberals do reflect some people's bigotry towards the States. (not gonna drop the "r" bomb, but under strict definition of the word...)

I am not a big fan of the conservatives by any stretch of the imagination, but I have admit that I agree with your notion that people are inherently afraid of change...

I also agree that some people are willing to forgive the unforgiveable with the Liberals in order to prevent a right leaning political party from gaining office.

But at the same time you have to think that the Liberals were really on the bubble this election. All the Allia...I mean the conservatives had to do was prove that they weren't the bible thumping rednecks they were being painted as in certain sectors of the country and they could have won a minority government....

They didn't do a very good job of that - but they are still a young party and those sorts of lessons need to be learned on the ascension to power.

Mind you, I am really not interested in seeing them attain that power any time in the near future.

It's more out of a purely morbid curiousity I suppose as to why I am so interested in watching that party unfold.

I realize that many here (mostly due to their geographical location) won't praticularly like my outlook on the conservatives, but I call it as I see it.

I don't praticularly care for Harper's vision of this country ( At first I considered it myopic, but after watching the man talk I realized he wasn't short sighted at all and that infact he was brilliantly sharp...It's just that his vision was a little too out there for me) , and I don't want to take a chance on him.

Hopefully something else (something better) comes down the pike in the future. But at the same time Paul Martin has his mandate, and it will be interesting to see what he can do with it over his term.



Long days and pleasant nights

[moon]

Originally posted by WCE@Aug 28 2004, 02:25 AM

But at the same time you have to think that the Liberals were really on the bubble this election. All the Allia...I mean the conservatives had to do was prove that they weren't the bible thumping rednecks they were being painted as in certain sectors of the country and they could have won a minority government....

They didn't do a very good job of that - but they are still a young party and those sorts of lessons need to be learned on the ascension to power.

They did move away form the redneck bible-thumoing compared to Alliance and especially Reform but they are not going to totally change their views to appeased voters in Ontario. This would comprise their values and what they believe in and make them no better then the Liberals.

Also what people fail to realise the Conservatives can only go so far before the people in the West will begin to realise that this is not the party they want to support and a new party will arise and we will be back to where we were 10 years ago with Reform, Conservative and Liberal.

[Thunderball]

I think therein lies the issue. Most Western Canadians and a few Ontarians see the Conservative viewpoint as rational and positive.

I think its the Liberals themselves who endeavor to fearmonger into people that there is something there that is sinister, when it reality, there really isn't. Bible Thumping has been growing out of favor in Western Canada for a long time now. Some semblance of morals and values seems to be the order of the day now, and I think its most difficult to argue with that. "Redneckery"is candidly anything said by a Westerner that says something left wing doesn't work properly.

For example, if I say "the healthcare system is screwed up and we need to look at contracting some services to save money, or placing user fees to prevent abuse of the system," or "We need to lower taxes, and slash useless social programs because they are suffocating our economy and are wasteful" or "we need checks and balances cause our system allows too much unchecked power to certain people, not to mention an elected senate for more fair representation" or "Our military needs actual equipment for this century and sufficient numbers to be useful" or "Quebec gets the red carpet treatment from the Feds and that needs to stop" I'd be labelled a redneck.

But all of what I've said is true... we need better healthcare solutions, we need lower taxes, less social programs, our system does leave a lot to be desired in equality and balances... the military is in tatters, and Quebec really does get a ton of stuff they don't deserve.

That being said, all the things I said also constitute CHANGE. That word scares the crap out of a lot of people. The Liberals won't do anything and people know it, its comfortable.

[Cowboy]

I agree with all that, but I don't think what you said labels you a Redneck. Redneck to me are the people that who are socially right wing, not for a multicultural society and don't want to foster, and the last thing is they only want the White Man to grow and prosper. Now I am not saying Conservatives are like this but there are certainly a few. That is where my problem lies...I think we need a party that is Liberal socially, and fiscally conservative....

That would be my party.