Northwestern University football players given right to form union

[Pagal4321]

I stand corrected.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colle...ools/finances/

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by nik-

If you bring multiple millions to a school, you deserve more than a scholarship. At absolute minimum if they're selling your jersey, you deserve a cut of that.

What about those doctors that do studies for medicines that cure things? they've brought more to the world, and the school than football could ever. Half the time it's doctorate students working on their PhD working their arse off for nothing.

They get a free education, room and board, books, tutors, medical, clothing, food, and a stipend.

They get paid in that, plus we would be naive to think they dont get money under the table. Paying the players wont fix that either.

The pay for play model will work for one year when a player like Jonny Football throws a fit that some 3rd string qb makes as much as him.

It wouldn't work, they don't have to play college football, they can stay where they are before some school gave them an opportunity to play ball.

I would be willing to bet that a majority of these kids wouldn't get into college if it wasn't for football. By that I mean they wouldn't qualify academically first and financially second.

I wonder how many kids were spared an early death or being put in jail for a long time if it wasn't for college football since a lot of these kids come for less than stellar upbringings.

These kids say that they cant get a job, I'd be willing to bet that they wouldn't swap places with a kid working at some burger joint and a full time student.

These guys have life by the ass in college, they're biting the hand that feeds them and they will not like the outcome.

CFB players will be sued by all the other sports because they will want to be paid and the CFB players will lose. All the other sports signed their contract under the same conditions.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by PIMking

What about those doctors that do studies for medicines that cure things? they've brought more to the world, and the school than football could ever. Half the time it's doctorate students working on their PhD working their arse off for nothing.

Apples and oranges. People don't fill 100,000 seat stadiums and TV networks don't pay billions of dollars to watch PhD students study.

[moon]

Originally Posted by nik-

If you bring multiple millions to a school, you deserve more than a scholarship. At absolute minimum if they're selling your jersey, you deserve a cut of that.

I could agree on the jerseys to me that makes some sense that if you are selling a specific number of a player they should get something but not overly sympathetic to the athletes beyond that.

I don't like the constant analogies to these people being treated like slaves that some sportswriters/casters make. Nobody is forcing these kids to play sports at the college level. If it is so bad they are free to not play or go to school at all.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Apples and oranges. People don't fill 100,000 seat stadiums and TV networks don't pay billions of dollars to watch PhD students study.

You're correct, But the players already compensated end the story

[Antithesis]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Apples and oranges. People don't fill 100,000 seat stadiums and TV networks don't pay billions of dollars to watch PhD students study.

Not to mention that the level of control exerted over the athletes by their coaches is extensive, to say the least. The players in this case are not seeking anything resembling pay-for-play and acknowledge that it is not currently possible even if they were to unionize. These guys are seeking benefits to help them in their post-college athletics lives, not for "more money".

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Not to mention that the level of control exerted over the athletes by their coaches is extensive, to say the least. The players in this case are not seeking anything resembling pay-for-play and acknowledge that it is not currently possible even if they were to unionize. These guys are seeking benefits to help them in their post-college athletics lives, not for "more money".

Agreed. However, while the players in this case are not seeking pay for play, the NCAA is facing challenges from others who are. Pay for play is the inevitable and logical conclusion to unionized student-athletes.

[Antithesis]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Agreed. However, while the players in this case are not seeking pay for play, the NCAA is facing challenges from others who are. Pay for play is the inevitable and logical conclusion to unionized student-athletes.

Well sure, that is a possibility, and I agree, even a likely 'next step' for college athletes from here. Even if that is the case, I don't see the issue. Saying things like, 'They are already compensated' is a bizarre thing to say; would we accept that from someone in our lives? 'You earn enough from your employer. That should be enough. Why ask for more?' If we wouldn't accept that in our lives, we should expect others to accept it in theirs.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by PIMking

You're correct, But the players already compensated end the story

It's pretty easy to argue that they're not being compensated commensurate to their value to a school.

Lacrosse and Volleyball players get athletic scholarships too, but they don't have billions of dollars made from people watching them.

[Resolute 14]

nik - And those scholarships are paid for by the sports that do make money. For me, that is going to be one of the more interesting aspects if unionization causes extreme changes to how the NCAA does business.

Anthisesis - Again, I agree. I'm really arguing both sides here because I think both sides have some merit to their positions.

[nik-]

Yeah they definitely do. But there's still some insane profit after the fact.

[Antithesis]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Anthisesis - Again, I agree. I'm really arguing both sides here because I think both sides have some merit to their positions.

Yeah, I agree that each side has merit. It's too bad that US college sports are relatively obscure here in Canada as I think this topic is really very interesting. I think that we are on the verge of some massive change in the college sports landscape, the type of which we've not really been privy to in our lifetimes. On the whole, though, I place my support squarely in the corner of the athletes, even if it comes down to a pay-for-play scenario.

[Resolute 14]

Yup, which is why I started the thread. It will be interesting to watch. I think that in the end, a lot of programs and players will lose big so that a much smaller number of programs and players can win big.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Well sure, that is a possibility, and I agree, even a likely 'next step' for college athletes from here. Even if that is the case, I don't see the issue. Saying things like, 'They are already compensated' is a bizarre thing to say; would we accept that from someone in our lives? 'You earn enough from your employer. That should be enough. Why ask for more?' If we wouldn't accept that in our lives, we should expect others to accept it in theirs.

I am saying they are fairly compensated which is much different from just compensated.

If I thought someone in my life was fairly compensated I don't think I would back them that hard to go out and try to get more.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by nik-

It's pretty easy to argue that they're not being compensated commensurate to their value to a school.

Lacrosse and Volleyball players get athletic scholarships too, but they don't have billions of dollars made from people watching them.

Your point? They don't have to go to college, they can stay at home because no one is forcing them into these contracts.

I'd love to be in their position and h Get a degree with zero debt

[PIMking]

I will say this right now, if college Football players so getting paid I'll quit watching it. There's a reason why the AHL Another minor leagues at zero attendance no one wants to watch B league stuff

[Roughneck]

A breakdown of union demands

1. Minimize college athletes' brain trauma risks.

2. Raise the scholarship amount.

3. Prevent players from being stuck paying sports-related medical expenses.

4. Increase graduation rates.

5. Protect educational opportunities for student-athletes in good standing.

6. Prohibit universities from using a permanent injury suffered during athletics as a reason to reduce/eliminate a scholarship.

7. Establish and enforce uniform safety guidelines in all sports to help prevent serious injuries and avoidable deaths.

8. Eliminate restrictions on legitimate employment and players ability to directly benefit from commercial opportunities.

9. Prohibit the punishment of college athletes that have not committed a violation.

10. Guarantee that college athletes are granted an athletic release from their university if they wish to transfer schools.

11. Allow college athletes of all sports the ability to transfer schools one time without punishment.

http://www.ncpanow.org/about/mission-goals

http://www.sbnation.com/college-foot...n-pay-for-play

[Resolute 14]

Most of those are reasonable, but #4 is pretty stupid. That's up to the individual student to manage.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Most of those are reasonable, but #4 is pretty stupid. That's up to the individual student to manage.

I agree, I've also thought that if they'd change the way they students (football) schedule is. Example, during the fall semester, football players only have one class, then spring and summer semesters they have to make up the credits to be eligible. This can help the student get a better degree, also it would/could keep the guys on campus in the summer. Meaning they can be on the S&C coaches diet, and workout plan, and they would be less likely to get in trouble on campus than being home.

[Antithesis]

Originally Posted by moon

I am saying they are fairly compensated which is much different from just compensated.

If I thought someone in my life was fairly compensated I don't think I would back them that hard to go out and try to get more.

That's fair, and I do see where you're coming from. I'm arguing that in my opinion the compensation is not yet acceptable. I think, at minimum, players should have coverage for the rest of their lives for medical issues caused by injuries during their athletic careers. That seems like such a basic thing, along with the rest of the health and safety demands. The rest is debatable for sure.