Ukraine to get $220M in financial support from Canada

[Pointman]

Ironically, this money will go to Russia, as Ukraine otherwise have no money to buy gas

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Yakbutter

I think it's a waste of money. I don't believe we should have our fingers in any other nations business. Canada should not be sending troops (Canadians) to die in Afghanistan, or money to foreign countries to help them solve their problems or whatever non sense is going on in the world.

Sure it's an easy issue for people to get sanctimonious over... "we should be helping other people yadda yadda". that's nice, if you want to help so bad you can cut a cheque and send your own money. Lets spend Canadian tax money on Canadians.

Are you an only child?

Also, how would this approach have worked in 1939?

[Pointman]

And for the record, I support it. Russia needs stable and fairly rich Ukraine, not an anarchic poverty mess that it could become without help. No one.wants a poor unstable country right at your borders.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Are you an only child?

Also, how would this approach have worked in 1939?

Ask the Americans

Isolationism from the international community doesn't work. And Canada is still a leader in terms of humanitarian causes.

Plus its the only slap in the mouth that we can give Putin

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Pointman

And for the record, I support it. Russia needs stable and fairly rich Ukraine, not an anarchic poverty mess that it could become without help. No one.wants a poor unstable country right at your borders.

For the record, what are you supporting? The Aid or the occupation?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Yakbutter

I think it's a waste of money. I don't believe we should have our fingers in any other nations business. Canada should not be sending troops (Canadians) to die in Afghanistan, or money to foreign countries to help them solve their problems or whatever non sense is going on in the world.

Sure it's an easy issue for people to get sanctimonious over... "we should be helping other people yadda yadda". that's nice, if you want to help so bad you can cut a cheque and send your own money. Lets spend Canadian tax money on Canadians.

Worst use of green text ever....................

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Yakbutter

if you want to help so bad you can cut a cheque and send your own money.

I, as part of Canada, just did! I sent them $220 million! Wow, I guess we're both happy now!

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

For the record, what are you supporting? The Aid or the occupation?

I support the aid. I do not support the occupation. I do not support Ukraine's government either, but I hope the aid will have to stabilize things a bit.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Pointman

I support the aid. I do not support the occupation. I do not support Ukraine's government either, but I hope the aid will have to stabilize things a bit.

Thanks for the response and clarification.

I am not trying to be pedantic, but which Ukraine gov't the current one or the previous one?

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Ask the Americans

Isolationism from the international community doesn't work. And Canada is still a leader in terms of humanitarian causes.

Plus its the only slap in the mouth that we can give Putin

Putin may like the aid actually, based on the reasons I posted. I am not sure, but there are obvious pros to Russia in this aid. Humanitarian disaster at our borders is not what we need and need Ukraine to pay for the gas.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Thanks for the response and clarification.

I am not trying to be pedantic, but which Ukraine gov't the current one or the previous one?

Neither. Previous one was democratically elected and wasn't as corrupted, as it is made out to be now. Ukraine was not in poverty, it was good enough to co-host Euro Soccer at 2012, for example. Yet he was bad and many Ukrainians hate him. Current government is not democratic at all, if they are any democratic, why wouldn't they go for elections which were scheduled next year? Their first law was banning Russian as official language in Russian-speaking regions (like banning French in Quebec). They are not democratic and not progressive or anything. They are just anti-Russian, which is why EU/US like them. That said, occupation is wrong move. Land grabbing just should not be tolerated in our age, it should be gone.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Neither. Previous one was democratically elected and wasn't as corrupted, as it is.made out to be now. Ukraine was good enough to co-host Euro Soccer at 2012, for example. Yet he was bad and many Ukrainians hate him. Current government is not democratic at all, if they are any democratic, why wouldn't they go for elections which were scheduled next year? Their first law was banning Russian as official language in Russian-speaking regions (like banning French in Quebec). They are not democratic and not progressive or anything. They are just anti-Russian, which is why EU/US like them. That said, occupation is wrong move. Land grabbing just should not be tolerated in our age, it should be gone.

Thansk I appreciate your repsonse.

I will say that the past few weeks have shown that they might be correct in being anti-Russian.........I am not sure I would be pro-Russian either.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Thansk I appreciate your repsonse.

I will say that the past few weeks have shown that they might be correct in being anti-Russian.........I am not sure I would be pro-Russian either.

The problem is not so much about them being anti Russian, but rather because it is essentially all they got. They are not democratic, they are not progressive, they are not particularly smart or bring in some fresh ideas, they were not even popular enough to go for elections and form a strong party, like Orange Revolution was. If they were all that and still anti-Russian, that's ok. But they are just anti-Russian and that is it. It may end up like new government in Iraq that legalized religious rape, as the only prerequisite for getting to power was being anti-Saddam. Not this bad, of course, but you got the point.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Pointman

The problem is not so much about them being anti Russian, but rather because it is essentially all they got. They are not democratic, they are not progressive, they are not particularly smart or bring in some fresh ideas, they were not even popular enough to go for elections and form a strong party, like Orange Revolution was. If they were all that and still anti-Russian, that's ok. But they are just anti-Russian and that is it. It may end up like new government in Iraq that legalized religious rape, as the only prerequisite for getting to power was being anti-Saddam. Not this bad, of course, but you got the point.

In short it is a #### sandwich.

[Yakbutter]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Are you an only child?

Also, how would this approach have worked in 1939?

You need to go look up the dates of Germanys first aggression and whens USA finally entered the war. Germany invaded Poland and annexed other lands east of Germany for years and the united states refused to be involved. The states and the west didn't involve themselves until France fell and Germany started bombing Britain. (and pearl harbour)

Western countries refusing to involve themselves in Europe's wars is nothing new. Canada wanting to separate from Britain so we wouldn't have to fight in it conflicts is one of the reasons we our a sovereign nation. Yes I realise we are sending $$ and not soldiers but how long is Canada going to be dragged into Europe's wars? Been going on for hundreds of years now.

Also many people in Ukraine wants to join Russia anyways, the media is just blowing this up is an 'illegal occupation' for the sake of sensational news.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Yakbutter

You need to go look up the dates of Germanys first aggression and whens USA finally entered the war. Germany invaded Poland and annexed other lands east of Germany for years and the united states refused to be involved. The states and the west didn't involve themselves until France fell and Germany started bombing Britain. (and pearl harbour)

Western countries refusing to involve themselves in Europe's wars is nothing new. Canada wanting to separate from Britain so we wouldn't have to fight in it conflicts is one of the reasons we our a sovereign nation. Yes I realise we are sending $$ and not soldiers but how long is Canada going to be dragged into Europe's wars? Been going on for hundreds of years now.

Also many people in Ukraine wants to join Russia anyways, the media is just blowing this up is an 'illegal occupation' for the sake of sensational news.

Please define "Western Countries".

[Plett25]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Their first law was banning Russian as official language in Russian-speaking regions (like banning French in Quebec).

Not even close.

It would be more like banning French in New Brunswick after the country of France invaded Quebec to "protect" those French speaking Canadians. We aren't talking about just banning Russian/French for ####s and giggles.

If Ukraine becomes anti-Russian, the blame is almost entirely Putin's. After his heavy handed "diplomacy" in November and December led to an overthrow of the pro-Russian government, he doubled down by invading.

Getting invaded leads to hyper nationalism. Wow! Who could have predicted that?

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Plett25

Not even close.

It would be more like banning French in New Brunswick after the country of France invaded Quebec to "protect" those French speaking Canadians. We aren't talking about just banning Russian/French for ####s and giggles.

If Ukraine becomes anti-Russian, the blame is almost entirely Putin's. After his heavy handed "diplomacy" in November and December led to an overthrow of the pro-Russian government, he doubled down by invading.

Getting invaded leads to hyper nationalism. Wow! Who could have predicted that?

They did it BEFORE the invasion. On 23rd February. Putin invaded on March 1st. Make no mistake, anti-Russian coup got to power and then Putin responded - however wrongly - not the other way around.

[NuclearPizzaMan]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Neither. Previous one was democratically elected and wasn't as corrupted, as it is.made out to be now. Ukraine was good enough to co-host Euro Soccer at 2012, for example. Yet he was bad and many Ukrainians hate him. Current government is not democratic at all, if they are any democratic, why wouldn't they go for elections which were scheduled next year? Their first law was banning Russian as official language in Russian-speaking regions (like banning French in Quebec). They are not democratic and not progressive or anything. They are just anti-Russian, which is why EU/US like them. That said, occupation is wrong move. Land grabbing just should not be tolerated in our age, it should be gone.

Oh well, I guess if a soccer association approved, it couldn't have been corrupt! International sporting conglomerates are known for their discerning nature re: corruption. That's why we had the olympics in Russia...

Anti Russian sentiment in Eastern Europe (and Ukraine especially) should come as a surprise to no one.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by NuclearPizzaMan

Oh well, I guess if a soccer association approved, it couldn't have been corrupt! International sporting conglomerates are known for their discerning nature re: corruption. That's why we had the olympics in Russia...

Anti Russian sentiment in Eastern Europe (and Ukraine especially) should come as a surprise to no one.

I said it clearly that he was bad and I do not support him. The point was that country wasn't exactly in poverty however corrupt and inept he allegedly was (and to certain extent he surely was).

The pro-Russian sentiment in Crimea should come as no surprise either though.