Burke on TSN 1050 Leafs Lunch - Page 2 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

codynw · 03-13-2014, 01:54 PM

Bob Hartley should get the Jack Adams award. Not because of what he has done for the Flames, but because of what he did to the Canucks.

Tailgator · 03-13-2014, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

Getting a team to bottom 5 in the NHL 2 years in a row is not unbelievable at all.

This team has huge defensive issues that has nothing to do with talent and the PP looks like 5 tyke guys thrown out there for the first time ever at times.

The hard work is nice but most teams would like to see a coach that is able to do more than yell and scream at kids and actually input some systems/teaching that helps the team win games.

Really? Nothing to do with talent?

moon · 03-13-2014, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

How would you be able to assess his teaching?

I am basing it on not seeing a lot of improvement on the teams positioning defensively or on the PP. Probably a stretch to say teaching but couldn't think of a better word for it.

Good teams seem to not only have great talent but play a style that minimizes the chances the other teams get while maximizing the chances they create.

The Flames play with zero system and just go out and play pond hockey hoping something works. This has been the case the whole time Hartley has been here so I have to think it is in large part because he is not working on that with the team or doing a poor job of getting it across to them.

With how he supposedly has them listening to the hard work and buying in it seems unlikely that they are ignoring him when he is trying to install a defensive system or PP.

codynw · 03-13-2014, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tailgator

Really? Nothing to do with talent?

Obviously. Shane O'Brien is a Norris winner on any other team, how can't you see that?

moon · 03-13-2014, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tailgator

Really? Nothing to do with talent?

Oh they have issues with talent yes but many of the things I see, leaving men wide open, skating back without taking a men, leaving the trailer wide open, 2 guys going to one guy are not talent issues but a lack of understanding of defensive coverage.

Tailgator · 03-13-2014, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

Oh they have issues with talent yes but many of the things I see, leaving men wide open, skating back without taking a men, leaving the trailer wide open, 2 guys going to one guy are not talent issues but a lack of understanding of defensive coverage.

For sure, but you said "nothing". Hockey IQ also has a lot to do with "talent". There's a difference between messing up under pressure to not understanding defensive coverage.

getoverit · 03-13-2014, 02:09 PM

Moon, I think life would be better if you became a Canuck fan and trolled over there. if you were the coach you would have been fired longggggg ago, your nothing but a backseat driver. you and Torts would be besties

.

Hartley has done an admireable job just not in coaching, but instilling a work ethic we havent seen since 04 and developing our young kids and putting them in situations to give them the exposure to develop..............

GoinAllTheWay · 03-13-2014, 02:11 PM

I hope they keep Hartley for a few years yet. We have a system, an identity. If he can do what he's done with this roster, I can only imagine what he can do with an improved one.

I'm tired of the coach turn over, I'm sure the team is too. It would be nice to have consistency for a while.

PeteMoss · 03-13-2014, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

I am basing it on not seeing a lot of improvement on the teams positioning defensively or on the PP. Probably a stretch to say teaching but couldn't think of a better word for it.

Good teams seem to not only have great talent but play a style that minimizes the chances the other teams get while maximizing the chances they create.

The Flames play with zero system and just go out and play pond hockey hoping something works. This has been the case the whole time Hartley has been here so I have to think it is in large part because he is not working on that with the team or doing a poor job of getting it across to them.

With how he supposedly has them listening to the hard work and buying in it seems unlikely that they are ignoring him when he is trying to install a defensive system or PP.

The Flames have allowed the 8th fewest shots/game in the league. Less than Boston, Nashville and Detroit.

Must be magic making this happen since they don't have a system.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm...otingOutshotby

moon · 03-13-2014, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tailgator

For sure, but you said "nothing". Hockey IQ also has a lot to do with "talent". There's a difference between messing up under pressure to not understanding defensive coverage.

The nothing was poor phrasing.

I meant that some of the issues they have have nothing to do with talent. They obviously have plenty of issues with talent as well.

saillias · 03-13-2014, 02:21 PM

So besides praising Hartley did Burke say anything else of interest?

FakenHaken · 03-13-2014, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saillias

So besides praising Hartley did Burke say anything else of interest?

Yes, that he actually is doing his own scouting. Yes the scouts are out there for sure, but the best part of being a GM is sitting and watching kids trying to make an impression......Don't want to make the next statement of damning Feaster. However, Feaster admittedly said he wasn't a hockey guy and wanted to leave that to the scouts, where Burke sounds more like a hockey guy and will be more hands on for this draft anyways. Tough to say what will work better just yet as I thought Feaster made some great choices along the way.

http://www2.tsn.ca/window/podcastcentre/#id=29257&id=13

This is the interview if you are interested.

Tailgator · 03-13-2014, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

The nothing was poor phrasing.

I meant that some of the issues they have have nothing to do with talent. They obviously have plenty of issues with talent as well.

I (sort of) see what you're saying, but things like 2 guys going to the wrong guy is pretty basic d-zone stuff. If that's on Hartley and crew, there's no way any of them would get beyond coaching their kids' teams.
Like I said, that's talent and hockey sense - a couple things lacking on the back end for the most part, as well as thinking under pressure (instead of just chucking the puck away or going to the wrong guy) is not something that's on coaching.

FlamesAddiction · 03-13-2014, 02:26 PM

When we were looking for a coach, I didn't really want Hartley. It was nothing personal, but I wanted new blood at the time. Now I am glad he was hired.

This is a rebuilding team and it was going to be a tough season no matter what, but at least the effort is there and the players seem to be positive. The team is at least getting respect now. I hope he sticks around longer. I really don't see any better candidates coming into this situation.

PeteMoss · 03-13-2014, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saillias

So besides praising Hartley did Burke say anything else of interest?

He's going to be at the game in Niagara tonight.
Niagara-Mississauga (Brendan Perlini)

Tanking is a fireable expense. Has never heard a team/GM/Owner talk of tanking.

Thinks Hartley should get some votes for coach of the year, total buy-in in the systems and physical training.

ComixZone · 03-13-2014, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

Oh they have issues with talent yes but many of the things I see, leaving men wide open, skating back without taking a men, leaving the trailer wide open, 2 guys going to one guy are not talent issues but a lack of understanding of defensive coverage.

....I'm sorry, but everything you mentioned are hockey basics. It's not confusing.

It's a lack of talent.

crazy_eoj · 03-13-2014, 02:34 PM

Too bad Dallas Eakins isn't available. Moon would be all over his defensive record from the AHL.... most positive shot differential in history?!?

Sometimes there's a little more to the story.

David Struch · 03-13-2014, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

The Flames play with zero system and just go out and play pond hockey hoping something works. This has been the case the whole time Hartley has been here so I have to think it is in large part because he is not working on that with the team or doing a poor job of getting it across to them.

Oh c'mon, are you serious or is just nothing but more poor phrasing?

Calgary4LIfe · 03-13-2014, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

I predicted them to be 28th at the start of the season, they are 26th. I don't think that is some great accomplishment or expectation levels being unrealistic.

I am not saying fire Hartley but I don't see anything he has done that wants me to see him stay beyond maybe next year and nothing out of him that you wouldnt get from a dozen other run of the mill coaches.

His systems and teaching seem especially awful.

Nice troll job

Do you pay attention at all during games Moon? I have already seen 5 or 6 games so far this season when the commentators (including HNIC) were going on about how good Hartley is because his practices are the most intense and organized, and he is always, always, ALWAYS teaching out there (him and his assistants).

Go and attend a practice one day. Go and attend another team's practice and compare.

This leads me to believe:

1) You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
2) You have never attended any practices for the Flames, or any practices for other teams.
3) You are just simply making stuff up to justify your position on Hartley.

If Hartley is a poor teacher, then apparently 90% of the coaches currently employed in the NHL aren't even teaching at all. Yes, that is how good he is of a teacher, and how ridiculous your statement is. Hartley has been getting quite the call-outs for how detailed and intense ALL of the practices he runs is, and how much (and how well) he is continually teaching out there.

Tough to take you seriously Moon.

We get it - you don't like Hartley. No coach is perfect, so bring up discussions centered around why you don't like his coaching, maybe his line-combos, maybe his system... but when you say he is an 'awful' teacher when everyone else in the hockey world is praising him for being a great teacher, it makes it really difficult to take your posts with any seriousness.

May 25, 1989 · 03-13-2014, 02:49 PM

The flames are competitive every night and with the roster that they have iced this year Bob Hartley should be given lots of credit.

From Darren Haynes twitter(prior to last nights game)

"80% of flames games this season have been wins or one-goal losses, last 17 games 15 have been wins or one goal loss with the other two 2-0 losses with one one being an empty net goal, Flames record 25 W (14 reg, 7 OT, 4 shootout) 40 L (20 by one goal(13 reg, 4 OT , 3 shootout, six by two goals with an empty net)"

summary from mulitiple twitter postings but didn't want to cut and paste but wanted to give him credit for the stats.