[GDT] Flames vs Wild, 6pm MST - Sportsnet West

[foshizzle11]

Originally Posted by Galakanokis

I liked the kid line but I want to see Granlund play center. I think him and Colborne will work well together.

Would like to see Ortio get another chance though but Berra got the win so it's fair he gets the start.

Well he is tonight, so that will be good to get a feel of what he can do at that position. Berra played well enough to earn it, but I would like to see Ortio as well. Here is hoping we get a good performance tonight from Berra and maybe a rest for him so Ortio can get in.

When is Ramo back?

[sureLoss]

Aaron Vickers @AAVickers
The Granlund's are certainly downplaying facing each other. Check out these following quotes...

Aaron Vickers @AAVickers
Markus: “I don’t really think about it that I’m playing against my brother. It’s just a normal game.” #Flames

Aaron Vickers @AAVickers
Mikael: “For sure it’s exciting, but you don’t want to think about that too much. It’s just playing your game and that’s it.” #Wild

[devo22]

typical Finnish understatement. I'm sure it'll be special for them, especially if they indeed start the game and take the opening faceoff against each other. Unless there's a line brawl, of course

[FBI]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Why would you risk Cammalleri getting hurt by playing him?

Not like he's really been playing the last 20 games anyways.

[Henry Fool]

I guess Granlund is center only because Stajan is out, but either way it's good. We'll actually see him with the puck now. Gives a better idea of how far he is right now.

[nmhen]

The Wild pretty much can't finish above 4th in the central, 7th in the West, and is in the process of garnering some breathing room over 9th place. A win tonight is big because they don't play again until Saturday. Kuemper has been so good the Wild simply didn't need to give up assets to get Miller (not that he'd have chosen Minny over STL, but you get my point). But a backup would be good. Harding is, sadly, all but done - they just haven't announced it. The question for him is whether he's done for the season, or forever. Really sad for him if this is the end of the line. Backstrom has been both injured and godawful for the balance of the season. Fletcher may be both a buyer (backup) and a seller (Backstrom) of goalies right now.

Koivu comes back tonight, but separated from Parise (about time) and on the second line (thank God), at least to start. I'm in the camp that says Koivu's over-rated. The other side likes to tell me I'm an idiot because he does so many little things well. Trouble is, when he's glued to the first line, we need him to also do the big things (read: score) well. And he doesn't. Countless players have been tried on his wings on the top line, and none have worked. What's the constant? Koivu. I think he's a terrific 2nd line center, and a reach on the top line. Tonight we see if I'm right or not.

What allows Yeo to move Koivu to the second line is how well Granlund (ours) is playing, and the chemistry he's had with Pominville for most of the season.

[Henry Fool]

Who the hell is doing the supposed over-rating of Mikko Koivu?

Please just trade him already so I don't have to read the complaining. The guy gives his everything, gets decent points, but only receives complaints in Minnesota.

[Igster]

Originally Posted by nmhen

A win tonight is big because they don't play again until Saturday.

Which is amazing considering we just had a huge Olympic break.

[Henry Fool]

I followed the Wild media a bit more last season. The only guy who ever says anything good about Koivu is Mike Yeo.

[nmhen]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

Who the hell is doing the supposed over-rating of Mikko Koivu?

Please just trade him already so I don't have to read the complaining. The guy gives his everything, gets decent points, but only receives complaints in Minnesota.

All the fans who think he's not over-rated! Which represents a fair number of Wild fans, so he hardly only receives complaints.

It's not even Koivu that's the problem. It's Koivu as a first line center in the NHL that's the problem. Koivu doesn't challenge for the top center spot on any contending team in the league, IMO. But, dare suggest he's better suited on the 2nd line and a vocal subset of Wild fans goes bananas. He's a career .746 points per game regular season player. He has 6 points in 16 playoff games. I love his work ethic and his attention to defense. But I'd love him more if we had a viable first line center ahead of him. He has said that he will bail out on the offensive zone so that he doesn't get caught behind the play, even if it means giving up on a scoring opportunity. That's great - but I think you need more of an offensive mindset from your top line, and he's just not that guy. Maybe Granlund can be that guy, I don't know.

I think the Wild is asking Koivu to be something he's not by playing him on the top line. And, whatever you like about his game, you should still see it on the second line, no?

[nmhen]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

I followed the Wild media a bit more last season. The only guy who ever says anything good about Koivu is Mike Yeo.

Russo is very balanced about Mikko.

From his blog this afternoon:

"Koivu, five points from being the Wild’s all-time leading scorer, was playing at his highest level when he was injured. He had eight points in his final five games before getting hurt, including three 2-point games, including two assists on Ryan Suter’s eventual hat trick while playing on the broken ankle.
He’ll also help bigtime in the faceoff circle as the Wild’s got from a top-5 team to 15th in the NHL in the 17 games he has missed."

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/248233681.html

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by nmhen

All the fans who think he's not over-rated! Which represents a fair number of Wild fans, so he hardly only receives complaints.

It's not even Koivu that's the problem. It's Koivu as a first line center in the NHL that's the problem. Koivu doesn't challenge for the top center stop on any contending team in the league, IMO. But, dare suggest he's better suited on the 2nd line and a vocal subset of Wild fans goes bananas. He's a career .746 points per game regular season player. He has 6 points in 16 playoff games. I love his work ethic and his attention to defense. But I'd love him more if we had a viable first line center ahead of him. He has said that he will bail out on the offensive zone so that he doesn't get caught behind the play, even if it means giving up on a scoring opportunity. That's great - but I think you need more of an offensive mindset from your top line, and he's just not that guy. Maybe Granlund can be that guy, I don't know.

I think the Wild is asking Koivu to be something he's not by playing him on the top line. And, whatever you like about his game, you should still see it on the second line, no?

Okay, so you'd like to have an even better center ahead of him. That's what you'd have in a championship team. Right. So you've had mediocre lineups for years and you're thinking that Koivu would ideally be a second line center - if the Wild were the Chicago Blackhawks.

And that leads to you call the player over-rated. The guy who other players keep voting as being one of the most underrated.

Size, playmaking, great faceoffs, great two-way play, plays against the top defenders every night, team leader even before he was made captain. Scores points on low scoring Wild teams. The Flames haven't had a center like that in a long time. But since he's wouldn't be first line center on the Penguins, let's just call him over-rated. Let's just always talk about him like he's a problem in the lineup rather than take two moments to appreciate what he does.

I can tell you that the Calgary media and fans wouldn't talk about him like that.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by nmhen

Russo is very balanced about Mikko.

From his blog this afternoon:

"Koivu, five points from being the Wild’s all-time leading scorer, was playing at his highest level when he was injured. He had eight points in his final five games before getting hurt, including three 2-point games, including two assists on Ryan Suter’s eventual hat trick while playing on the broken ankle.
He’ll also help bigtime in the faceoff circle as the Wild’s got from a top-5 team to 15th in the NHL in the 17 games he has missed."

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/248233681.html

Russo is a fine reporter but his opinions aren't always balanced. I don't know if he has any special insight into the game.

And he's terrified of Koivu. Doesn't like being in the same room with him.

[nmhen]

@Henry Fool

No, what leads me to call him over-rated is how Wild fans, who are also fans of him, think he's just fine on the top line.

Also not ignoring what he does at all. I mentioned his two-way play, his work ethic. Maybe you missed that part. Agree he has good size, and is great in the circle. He does draw the top defensive pair at least a lot of the time, too. You're right - all good things. But all exclusive traits to first line centers?

You mentioned his play making - I disagree with you about that. His best move is to dig the puck out of the corner and set up a chance in front. Problem is he doesn't go into the corner often enough because he's so worried about getting caught too deep. Again, that's fine for a 2nd or even 3rd line center. But I think it's reasonable to want more scoring from your top line center. He is pretty good in the shootout, though. So there's that.

You mentioned his leadership, I also disagree with you about that. The Wild have been an extremely inconsistent team under his captaincy (and before it, to be fair). They routinely play down to their opponent - even this year when they've been "better", on balance, than they've been in past seasons. I'm not saying he has to be a rah-rah or get in your face kind of guy. But he's no Sakic or Yzerman type of captain, either. He also yaps and complains to the refs (particularly about getting kicked out of the circle) incessantly, and the THEORY is that it creates a negative perception about him among the zebras. He infamously disliked Havlat, and there were reports that they got into spats during practice, including a bench door slamming pouty-face episode by Mikko. He didn't mesh with Gaborik, Havlat, Setoguchi, Brunette, Rolston, Parise, Pominville, Heatley...the list goes on. But, until now, everyone else had to move to a new line, not Mikko. If nothing else, that indicates a high maintenance player. Is that what you mean by leadership?

I do recall that he was considered under-rated by NHLers earlier in his career. I was not aware that was still the case, though. It used to be that Mikko got hurt and the team promptly went down the toilet. Now he gets hurt and Finland has a good showing at the Oly and no team garners more points in the third quarter than the Wild.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports-content/hoc...it-luongo.html

I've never said I didn't like Koivu, or appreciate what he brings to the team. I'm just saying I'm glad he's finally become uncoupled from the top line and that those who think he belongs there, no questions asked (not you per se, but his fans among Wild fans), are over-generous in their assessment of him, IMO.

[nmhen]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

And he's terrified of Koivu. Doesn't like being in the same room with him.

This is based on what? I can 100% promise you it's an inaccurate assessment.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Why would you risk Cammalleri getting hurt by playing him?

I don't think there's anyone available to play in his spot with Westgarth out.. Derek Smith is the only extra I believe right now.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by nmhen

[...]

He didn't mesh with Gaborik, Havlat, Setoguchi, Brunette, Rolston, Parise, Pominville, Heatley...the list goes on. But, until now, everyone else had to move to a new line, not Mikko. If nothing else, that indicates a high maintenance player. Is that what you mean by leadership?

I do recall that he was considered under-rated by NHLers earlier in his career. I was not aware that was still the case, though. It used to be that Mikko got hurt and the team promptly went down the toilet. Now he gets hurt and Finland has a good showing at the Oly and no team garners more points in the third quarter than the Wild.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports-content/hoc...it-luongo.html

I've never said I didn't like Koivu, or appreciate what he brings to the team. I'm just saying I'm glad he's finally become uncoupled from the top line and that those who think he belongs there, no questions asked (not you per se, but his fans among Wild fans), are over-generous in their assessment of him, IMO.

First of all the bolded sentence - that's a disingenuous list. And now you're actually calling Koivu "a high maintenance player".

Earlier your formulation was that anyone who doesn't think he's overrated is overrating him.

Sound to me like you're trying hard to paint him in negative light and I think this illustrates my point about the "balanced" way he is being discussed in Minnesota.

I could speculate that Lemaire still casts a shadow over the team and Koivu was trained and named captain by him. I think this might lead some to take for granted what he does well. He just smells of Lemaire hockey when some people fantasize about a high-flying, high-scoring Wild team.

Well you'll start getting more scoring when you get more talented lineups, as I'm sure you're starting to see. That shouldn't reflect negatively on Koivu though.

[FlameZilla]

@NHLFlames: Matt Stajan will not play tonight as he has returned to #yyc for personal reasons ~ http://t.co/pDZieVIWpN #CGYMIN

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by nmhen

This is based on what? I can 100% promise you it's an inaccurate assessment.

Just something I've read. I assume it's kind of joke for Russo or something like that. Didn't mean it seriously.

[sureLoss]

Kristen Odland @KristenOdlandCH
Also, of note, #Flames interim general manager Brian Burke is meeting up with the team to watch tonight's game vs. the #Wild.