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Old 02-05-2014, 03:22 PM   #21
macker
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Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19 View Post
First of all, fat bikes are a relatively recent phenomenon that could catch on or could be a fad. I know I have no particular desire to bike around in the snow in -15 weather. The Fish Creek park being outdoor is fine, but when it's feasible to ride outside, there are tons of other options. I guess my point is if you did an indoor facility, it would be literally the only option for a large group of people who participate in this sport. That has to be an attractive proposition.

As for keeping the building running, what needs doing? You need light, you need heat, and I guess you probably have some sort of food and beverage dispensary so there may or may not be those facilities. Other than that, maintenance seems minimal - repairs to wooden features aren't the toughest thing ever. I bet you'd get a lot of staff hours for free from enthusiasts and bike clubs.

They have been around since the 1980s. The first mass produced fatbike, the Pugsley, has been around since 2005 and demand has increased year after year ever since. Now every major bike manufacturer such as Trek, Kona, Specialized, Norco, Surly, Salsa have a fatbike out. They are a fad in the same way that disc breaks, 29ers, or single speeds once were.
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Old 02-05-2014, 03:23 PM   #22
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Yeah, see I just don't know. I mean browsing around here's an ad for 57,000 sq feet of space at $6.25psf, in a pretty solid location near Memorial...
http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/17518...NE-Calgary-AB/

I have no idea what that looks like or if it would be appropriate at all or if other similar spaces exist for comparable rates or what.
Maybe I'm way off base then. It wouldn't be the first time...

I don't have a premium loopnet subscription, so I can't see that. As long as the square footage doesn't include any mezzanine space you're probably right.
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Old 02-05-2014, 03:30 PM   #23
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Check out Ray's. www.raysmtb.com

2 locations - Milwaukee and Cleveland
Open from October to April.
Noon-10pm M-F, 9am-10pm Sat/Sun

They seem to be doing alright so I don't see why you couldn't make something similar work in Calgary.




Last edited by hmmhmmcamo; 02-05-2014 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 02-05-2014, 03:33 PM   #24
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There are 3 climbing gyms in calgary that have been around for a while that might be worth talking to to see rent, operating, staffing, insuance costs. I think they are similar in that they are a niche sport, done outside normally, and considered risky. They also both have the same problem of being empty in the summer when people head outdoors. Both have significant equipment costs and the same kind of ancillory sales for food and gear.

Couple of things they run to add value
- outdoor courses
- indoor courses
- birthday parties
- kids courses
- competitive teams

The biggest disadvantage of a bike place compared to a climbing wall is the amount of space per person. Your cost of space per person will be higher.
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Old 02-05-2014, 03:43 PM   #25
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I don't know if this would work around here, however, I'd love to be wrong. I think if you could tie it in with skateboarding somehow, then you'd broaden your base. The kids in cochrane clean the skatepark off as soon as it snows and they're out there skating and riding. Me, personally, I'd rather ride a fatbike in Bragg Creek or Canmore in the winter. I love it outside, so that's my thing.
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:07 PM   #26
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I've ridden Joyride 150 several times while out in TO on business and it is a great place. Not only would I love to see a place like this built in Calgary, but I'd probably be one of the first people in line for a seasons pass. That said:

1. Joyride has the entire GTA to draw from, with a population of more than 6 million people. Calgary has 1/6 of that, give or take. It would probably be pretty tough to keep something like this going around here, especially in the summer months when everyone is riding their bikes outside. Places like Rays and JR150 own their buildings outright, so they can shut down for a few months if they need to save on operating cost. Rent a place and it still costs you thousands of dollars to be there every month even when nobody is coming in to ride.

2. As I mentioned above, parks like Rays and Joyride own their buildings. I'm not sure what the story is with Rays, but I'm pretty sure a derelict warehouse in Cleveland probably costs a lot less than it would in Calgary. (if you could even find one in Calgary) The people who own JR150 apparently got their building for a ridiculously small price, which is why they were able to go ahead with the idea to begin with.

3. Liability. It's not crippling, but it's close. To ride at Joyride 150 you have to buy a membership card and sign a waiver. Again I have no idea about Rays but would imagine it's similar. Carrying insurance like that ain't cheap.

4. Build cost. You'd be amazed at how much wood goes into building a place like that and how much it actually costs. I'd venture that a place like Joyride 150 probably contains well over $100K worth of wood. Plus you'd have to change your features out every year because they do wear out with people casing your jumps all day every day, and people will eventually get bored so if you want them to renew their seasons passes, there has to be something new for them to ride.

Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to see it happen here. A friend and I actually (briefly) looked into getting something started but the challenges were too daunting for 2 guys with families and full-time jobs to bother with. If you ever were going to take the plunge, PM me and I'd be happy to supply some free labour.
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:45 PM   #27
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Anyone else ever go to the 403 skatepark?

Edit - Saw it was mentioned earlier in this thread.

Last edited by DOOM; 02-05-2014 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 02-05-2014, 06:42 PM   #28
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Anyone else ever go to the 403 skatepark?

Edit - Saw it was mentioned earlier in this thread.
Made it twice before it closed. It would be really nice to have an indoor skatepark again. It sucks taking half the year off.
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Old 02-05-2014, 11:11 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19 View Post
I bet you'd get a lot of staff hours for free from enthusiasts and bike clubs.

I bet you wouldn't.

sure you might have people like Redliner who'd say they'd offer some time, but realistically, after a year, you wont have anyone committing

Last edited by Pizza; 02-05-2014 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 02-06-2014, 12:17 AM   #30
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Chat to jpold, your (OP) comment that warehouse space must be cheap and abundant is pretty much 100% wrong. I'd guess the Markham space is about a third the price vs. Calgary. Can't recall, I looked at AY's NA graphs today and I'm not familiar with Markham but know that Ontario warehouse is a heck of a lot cheaper than Calgary. Ditto for op costs.

Last edited by ranchlandsselling; 02-06-2014 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:21 AM   #31
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its tough enough to find a 400sqft box to live in this city yet it's "easy" to find an empty warehouse just sitting around doing nothing? You're going to pay out the ass for anything like that here. That's why the indoor airsoft facility shut down even though it was getting tons of people.
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Old 02-06-2014, 08:33 AM   #32
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I know the owners of the Source, and was around when they built the indoor park. It was a gigantic money pit, and although I wasn't privy to their income statements rumour had it that park took almost all the profits from their (at the time) 3 store locations to run. They couldn't close it down fast enough when the lease expired.

I don't recall the lease charges, but they were most definitely over $15/sq ft. From what I understand Currie Barracks is some of the most expensive real estate in the City to lease, and they were paying an obscene amount to keep it open.

Most of these parks are built by guys who "have a dream", don't run the numbers (or don't believe the ones they see) and go out and spend a bunch of money on ramp construction and lease. The Source was no different.

I should also mention it probably didn't help that they wouldn't allow BMX or Rollerblades in there. It's cool to be elitist I guess, but they sure paid for it.
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:02 AM   #33
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Greetings,

I stumbled across this forum in my research surrounding the inclusion of MTB trails as part of the BFI site reclamation. It has come to my attention that yes, the BFI Landfill in Chaparral will be reclaimed in one way or another. As an avid mountain biker, and SE resident, i have always seen this site as having a lot of potential for two-wheeled use.

I have begun discussions with the residents association, and will be speaking with BFI in the near future.

Calgary Mountain Bike Alliance is in the loop, and they are somewhat interested in seeing what is possible.

Some ideas that i have floated include xc trails around the landfill, pump track on top, or possibly BMX.

When you look at the site, there is massive amount of room to use. Landfills in the US have gone through similar reclamation and have include MTB trails and skill parks on smaller pieces of land.

I am cautiously optimistic about the potential here, but it would be awesome to have a bike facility in the deep SE.

I am open to thoughts, comments, suggestions, as this would be a public park and will be multi-use (read: hiking, biking, etc.).

Thanks!
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:45 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOOM View Post
Anyone else ever go to the 403 skatepark?

Edit - Saw it was mentioned earlier in this thread.
I went all the time during spring break and summers. It was a shame I was such a terrible skateboarder. We also rented it out from 12 am- 2 am so that we could ride our mountain bikes there
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Old 02-20-2014, 11:43 AM   #35
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It would be awesome to have something like this, but they never work. I remember Skate Jungle in the late '80s in the NE, Skate World on MacLeod in the early 1990s, and then the ones that have come and gone since. There are a million better and safer ways to earn more money per square foot in a warehouse than one of these parks as they never turn a profit. Just some back-of-the-napkin math will tell you that if you don't want to learn from the failure of the half dozen or so guys that have tried this business in the past 30 years. And that's how you have to look at a business idea...will this pay all its costs and turn a significant enough profit to make all the hassles that will come with it worthwhile. Unfortunately, this won't, which is a shame because there aren't enough fun and active indoor activities in Calgary during the winter.
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:01 PM   #36
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The Calgary 'fun park' capital investment market was tapped out when they built trampoline world.

http://extremeairpark.com/
Thanks for the info. That is great to hear that we are getting one of these trampoline parks locally! I took my kids to one of these when we were on vacation in the US last year. They are great fun and really good exercise.
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