[Trade] Panthers trade Kris Versteeg to Blackhawks

[moon]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

Worst player on the second worst team in the league. I stand by that.

Maybe you are right but it seems doubtful considering they have guys like Tomas Kopecky 1 pt 19 games, Kris Barch never added anything to a team, Mike Weaver horrible defenseman, Jakub Markstrom horrible gaolie and Barkov way out of his depth as a rookie on the team.

You could be right but I think I will trust Stan Bowman and the Chicago staff on this one.

If Florida are keeping half his salary and I assume half his cap hit since they need it (if that is allowed cap hit I mean) even better move for Chicago and pretty tough to complain about.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Still it's only several games this season. A bad even absolute terrible stretch of maybe 10 games shouldn't destroy his value so heavily.

It would be different if they were just unloading him for nothing, but keeping close to 7M in salary more or less just to get rid of him? That seems like an awfully big fall for a player signed to that contract a year ago (and only 28 games played since signing it).

Well like I said he has negative value for Florida because of his attitude. As soon as you accept that they just needed to get rid of him, the deal makes sense from their perspective.

You'd think he'll be motivated in Chicago. I just don't know if you can turn it on and off like that.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by moon

If Florida are keeping half his salary and I assume half his cap hit since they need it (if that is allowed cap hit I mean) even better move for Chicago and pretty tough to complain about.

The percentage of salary is the same as percentage of cap space retained for any transaction. So Blackhawks are getting him at 2.2M cap hit for the next almost 3 years along with half his actual salary, and since it was backloaded the Panthers are actually going to have to pay him close to 7M to play for the Hawks.

Either an absolute terrible signing or an absolute terrible trade, I guess take your pick.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by moon

Maybe you are right but it seems doubtful considering they have guys like Tomas Kopecky 1 pt 19 games, Kris Barch never added anything to a team, Mike Weaver horrible defenseman, Jakub Markstrom horrible gaolie and Barkov way out of his depth as a rookie on the team.

You could be right but I think I will trust Stan Bowman and the Chicago staff on this one.

If Florida are keeping half his salary and I assume half his cap hit since they need it (if that is allowed cap hit I mean) even better move for Chicago and pretty tough to complain about.

Ask a Florida fan then. You clearly haven't watched them this season.

[Canada 02]

Versteeg was scratched about a week ago; he complained to the media, basically saying he was never scratched when he played on good teams, but he got scratched despite playing on this crappy one.

The implication being he was to good to be benched; after that Talon had to get rid of him

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

Well like I said he has negative value for Florida because of his attitude. As soon as you accept that they just needed to get rid of him, the deal makes sense from their perspective.

I understand, but the problem was they didn't "just get rid of him" they kept half of his contract too and got pretty much nothing in return.

Maybe that's the only way they could have gotten rid of him, but it shows just how terrible the contract was. But I have my reservations, injury aside, that's a pretty big fall to go from a consistent 20-25 player who was being traded for 1st round picks to having no team want you unless being paid 2.2M.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I understand, but the problem was they didn't "just get rid of him" they kept half of his contract too and got pretty much nothing in return.

Maybe that's the only way they could have gotten rid of him, but it shows just how terrible the contract was. But I have my reservations, injury aside, that's a pretty big fall to go from a consistent 20-25 player who was being traded for 1st round picks to having no team want you unless being paid 2.2M.

I don't want to sound like I'm on some negative Versteeg trip. I've no particular reason to put him down. Just telling you what I've seen.

It is a big fall. Which is not to say that he can't regain his form in Chicago. The Hawks are betting on that. But I consider it a fact that his contributions in Florida have been negative.

Perhaps he'll go from being barely good enough for the fourth line in Florida - and with a bad attitude to boot - back to a solid contributor on one of the best teams in the league. Maybe. But I don't see how you can assume that he will. It's a calculated gamble by the Hawks.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

Ask a Florida fan then. You clearly haven't watched them this season.

It's probably not good to talk to imaginary people.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by strombad

It's probably not good to talk to imaginary people.

Well all I can say is that there are people at hfboards who at least pretend to be Florida fans, and they're celebrating despite the fact that they got almost nothing in return.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

I don't want to sound like I'm on some negative Versteeg trip. I've no particular reason to put him down. Just telling you what I've seen.

It is a big fall. Which is not to say that he can't regain his form in Chicago. The Hawks are betting on that. But I consider it a fact that his contributions in Florida have been negative.

Perhaps he'll go from being barely good enough for the fourth line in Florida - and with a bad attitude to boot - back to a solid contributor on one of the best teams in the league. Maybe. But I don't see how you can assume that he will. It's a calculated gamble by the Hawks.

From pretty much leading the team in scoring to not being good enough for the fourth line in 15 games? Pretty big hyperbole, in my opinion, especially when he's been playing with Huberdeau much of the season and top 6 in ice-time.

Either way Tallon made a terrible mistake and the Panthers have to pay for it. Spending 3.5M on Versteeg and Kuba next year for a team that historically likes to spend in that 50-55M range is a pretty big chunk of the team's spending.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

From pretty much leading the team in scoring to not being good enough for the fourth line in 15 games? Pretty big hyperbole, in my opinion, especially when he's been playing with Huberdeau much of the season and top 6 in ice-time.

Either way Tallon made a terrible mistake and the Panthers have to pay for it. Spending 3.5M on Versteeg and Kuba next year for a team that historically likes to spend in that 50-55M range is a pretty big chunk of the team's spending.

Well he was on the fourth or scratched when I watched him. Didn't see him with Huberdeau once as far as I recall. Earlier I saw a game where he was on Barkov's line.

But frankly I don't know why I'm arguing with people who haven't actually watched him this season.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

Well he was on the fourth or scratched when I watched him. Didn't see him with Huberdeau once as far as I recall. Earlier I saw a game where he was on Barkov's line.

But frankly I don't know why I'm arguing with people who haven't actually watched him this season.

I did watch him, and he was with Huberdeau. Don't need to be so condescending since I sort of disagree with you. Especially since you haven't watched him a ton either if you never saw him with Huberdeau. But whatever, he's been bad that's fine, we agree. It's still only 18 games after a season ending injury.

My point is simple, getting rid of Versteeg was not a terrible move. Having to keep 2.2M of Versteeg's contract and pay him close to 7M over the next 3 years means somewhere Tallon messed up. Maybe it wasn't this trade and was instead the contract, but either way big mistake.

I do believe though that for a player who prior to his injury was a 20-25 player in the league at 2.2M they should have gotten more for him. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Tallon is still high on Olsen after picking him with their 1st round pick and is a big reason they agreed to the trade.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I did watch him, and he was with Huberdeau. Don't need to be so condescending since I sort of disagree with you. Especially since you haven't watched him a ton either if you never saw him with Huberdeau. But whatever, he's been bad that's fine, we agree. It's still only 18 games after a season ending injury.

My point is simple, getting rid of Versteeg was not a terrible move. Having to keep 2.2M of Versteeg's contract and pay him close to 7M over the next 3 years means somewhere Tallon messed up. Maybe it wasn't this trade and was instead the contract, but either way big mistake.

I do believe though that for a player who prior to his injury was a 20-25 player in the league at 2.2M they should have gotten more for him. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Tallon is still high on Olsen after picking him with their 1st round pick and is a big reason they agreed to the trade.

Apologies if I sounded condescending. I'm sure he's been up and down the lineup, including being a healthy scratch, given that he didn't fit anywhere.

You make a coherent argument but I think the deal simply reflects the way he has played and the fact that it's uncertain that he'll be able to get back on track.

Haven't heard the details of the half salary thing. We're assuming it's for the entire contract but I wonder if it could only be for this season.

[Hells Bells]

Yes, Versteeg has played with Huberdeau at times this year.

He mostly played with Fleischmann & Barkov up until the healthy scratch.

I don't care how many Panthers games you've watched, to say he is the worst player on that garbage team is ridiculous.

Good deal for the Hawks.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Hells Bells

Yes, Versteeg has played with Huberdeau at times this year.

He mostly played with Fleischmann & Barkov up until the healthy scratch.

I don't care how many Panthers games you've watched, to say he is the worst player on that garbage team is ridiculous.

Good deal for the Hawks.

I'm genuinely surprised that you would disagree with me so strongly after watching him play, but in the end it's just my opinion. To me he looked like someone who didn't care and couldn't contribute, and that made him the worst player on the team. Not in any abstract sense but concretely on the ice. He fulfilled no role on that team as far as I saw.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

Haven't heard the details of the half salary thing. We're assuming it's for the entire contract but I wonder if it could only be for this season.

It's all 3. All salary retention trades are for the remainder of the contract.

And a quick look shows around 40% of his time was spent playing with Huberdeau so it wasn't just a small chunk. Although his lack of production and playing with good linemates is probably a better case that he's struggling anyways.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

It's all 3. All salary retention trades are for the remainder of the contract.

And a quick look shows around 40% of his time was spent playing with Huberdeau so it wasn't just a small chunk. Although his lack of production and playing with good linemates is probably a better case that he's struggling anyways.

Where did you find those stats?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

Where did you find those stats?

http://hockey.dobbersports.com/froze...ations&sent=go

Might be closer to like 35 or whatever, just did ballpark.

If that links not working just go http://hockey.dobbersports.com/frozenpool_linecombo.php and put in the stuff.

[Hells Bells]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

I'm genuinely surprised that you would disagree with me so strongly after watching him play, but in the end it's just my opinion. To me he looked like someone who didn't care and couldn't contribute, and that made him the worst player on the team. Not in any abstract sense but concretely on the ice. He fulfilled no role on that team as far as I saw.

Bolded basically describes Mr. Glencross' season so far to a "T".

Not sure I'd go as far as to call him the worst player on the Flames.

I'm not going to argue that Versteeg played good because he was pretty much crap, but for a guy coming off an injury with his track record, there is no way he was even close to the worst player on the Panthers.

Playing like the worst and being the worst are far from the same thing. Although I'd argue in the games I watched, he was just as good or better than guys like Barch, Kopecky, Goc, Boyes etc...

Difference being the Panthers dealt with Versteeg by limiting his minutes and eventually scratching him while the Flames continued to trot Glencross out there for 20+ minutes.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

http://hockey.dobbersports.com/froze...ations&sent=go

Might be closer to like 35 or whatever, just did ballpark.

If that links not working just go http://hockey.dobbersports.com/frozenpool_linecombo.php and put in the stuff.

Thanks. It's definitely over 30% if you add it up. I'd say his even strength ice time suggests that he was not in fact a fourth liner so I was wrong to say that he was one. Sure felt like he was rarely on the ice though.

But like you say that hardly redeems him. I'll stand by qualitative judgment. I honestly can't think of a worse performer, but you can of course say that clearly it's based on a limited number of casual observations.

Again, Panthers fans sure seem happy to get rid of him so I'm probably not that far from the truth, because like you say it's not a very attractive deal in itself.