This is by far the best, most concise piece of evidence proving to me there was a conspiracy to kill JFK.
There's absolutely no way that Oswald, acting as a lone gunman, would have been able to call off the Secret Service agent that was responsible for protecting the back of the presidents limo. The fact that JFK's own SS set him up is undeniable proof there was a conspiracy.
A witness confirmed that the package he was carrying was nothing more than curtain rods.
No. That is what Oswald stated was in the package. I have never heard of any witness claiming to have seen "curtain rods". That is pure fallacy, sorry.
There is overwhelming, factual evidence that implicates Oswald taking shots from the 6th floor.
This is by far the best, most concise piece of evidence proving to me there was a conspiracy to kill JFK.
There's absolutely no way that Oswald, acting as a lone gunman, would have been able to call off the Secret Service agent that was responsible for protecting the back of the presidents limo. The fact that JFK's own SS set him up is undeniable proof there was a conspiracy.
There are dozens of other examples, before Nov 22, of Kennedy riding around in a motorcade with the bubbletop down and no secret service agents on the bumper. This video makes the assumption that the secret service always stood on the back of the Presidential limo and this day was the one exception. A poorly managed protection team, prone to making foolish decisions, doesnt prove a conspiracy, but it does help explain how the assassination was a success.
I never questioned that Oswald pulled the trigger. He probably was the lone shooter but maybe not. What has always left me unsatisfied is what was the motive and who if anyone was behind Oswald? The inquiry left everybody with too many questions and than they sealed the files. Why did they do this? What if anything are they hiding? I've been waiting since I heard the news.
I wholly concur. Would have been interesting if Oswald had actually been brought to trial. He was a nut case and may have never provided anything meaningful however.
The way Oswald was paraded out of DP headquarters in front of a myriad of media and other wanderers would never happen in this day & age. He would be in very protective custody at all times.
Last edited by FLAME ENVY; 11-16-2013 at 05:47 PM.
Just listened to Dan Carlin openly postulate that a coverup by the american government may have been in an effort to avert global conflict. Draws comparisons to the assassination of the arch duke ferdinand that lead to ww1. If the soviets had anything to do with the murder, or if backlash to a communist tied oswald or oswald and conspirators would have caused an appetite for open war, i could buy the idea of a "just coverup"
just theoretical i know, but kind of opened my eyes to the idea that there may have been things more valuable than the truth at stake.
Dan Carlin is awesome. He offers such well informed perspectives and he goes so in depth, it's addicting.
On twitter the other day, he posted a link to footage of the Zapruder film, that had been stabilized. It's obviously very graphic, but it provides a clearer view.
There are dozens of other examples, before Nov 22, of Kennedy riding around in a motorcade with the bubbletop down and no secret service agents on the bumper. This video makes the assumption that the secret service always stood on the back of the Presidential limo and this day was the one exception. A poorly managed protection team, prone to making foolish decisions, doesnt prove a conspiracy, but it does help explain how the assassination was a success.
You claim there are dozens of examples, yet you provide none? Here's a picture of Kennedy in Tampa on November 18th, 1963, just 4 days before his assassination.
Notice the 2 Secret Service agents riding on the bumper, grasping the arm bars, providing a human-shield protection for the president, just like they are supposed to be doing. And yes, that is the same limo that was in Dallas.
Now go back and watch the video I posted again. Look at the agent that was called off the bumper. He throws up his arms in confusion and frustration 3 times, each time in a more exaggerated manner. To me, that is clearly a sign that standard procedure had been broken, and it was done purposefully by a signal from the SS agent in charge, which led directly to the murder of the president.
Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
Exp:
The CIA did it
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This is the conspiracy theory that interests Perry the most. "The problem is, of all of them, this is one I can't debunk," he laughs.
"Supposedly Kennedy was fed up with the shenanigans that the CIA was pulling," Perry said. "He found out the CIA was trying to kill (Cuban leader Fidel) Castro, which is a fact. So the argument is that the CIA felt that Kennedy was going to disband them. And as a result of that, they were the ones that ordered the killing of Kennedy."
Perry points out that a former head of the CIA, Allen Dulles, was a member of the Warren Commission, the special Johnson-appointed panel tasked with the official investigation of the assassination. The commission determined that Oswald acted alone.
Oswald was a supporter of Soviet-backed Cuba.
"We know Oswald was in the Russian embassy in Mexico City," Perry said. "We even know who he talked to. But we don't know what was said. Then a few weeks later, he shoots Kennedy."
Quote:
"We need to know what happened in Mexico City," Perry said.
The answer, he said, may be contained in still-classified CIA documents. The U.S. National Archives currently holds a number of unreleased CIA documents related to the assassination. Those papers are scheduled to be made public in 2017 as part of the 1992 Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act.
"CIA has followed the provisions of the JFK Assassination Records Collection Act, and the National Archives has all of the agency's documents and files on the Kennedy assassination," said CIA spokesman Edward Price. "The classified information contained in the files remains subject to the declassification provisions of the Act."
So, either we already know the truth, Oswald acted alone, or -- worst-case scenario -- we may never know the whole truth, prompting one more question surrounding the killing of JFK: Would America be OK with that?
Doesnt the CIA and FBI release all documents after 50 years? I rememebr they released all the Hitler documents at the 50 year mark. Kind of talking about a moot point though as I highly doubt they'll release the JFK documents any time soon.
Apparently JFK standing up in an open-top limo, without secret service on the bumper, wasn't too much of a concern
I like how you completely ignore the photo I posted from 4 days before the assassination, and instead post a random smattering of photos that could have been taken anytime, anywhere.
In fact, there was an increased awareness of a threat against JFK in the months leading up to Dallas. There was an assassination plot uncovered in Chicago that aborted a planned trip by JFK, just 3 weeks before Dallas. There was also the threat in Tampa that I already posted, which showed beefed up security around this president.
Consider this photo of JFK's motorcade in Tampa.
I count 2 SS agents on the back of the limo, and 4 visible flanking motorcycles, with a probable 5th one on the right hand side out of camera view. These motorcycles were in place to prevent crossfire and were also conveniently missing just 4 days later.
I DVR'd a Nova special last night, on PBS, called 'Cold Case JFK' - description says "a reinvestigation using modern technology and contemporary scientific techniques. Included: ballistics experts reconstruct the shooting in a test of the 'single bullet theory.'" Will probably watch it tonight with my husband. It looks very interesting.
The program was quite interesting. Basically said the behavior the bullet would exhibit passing through bodies is consistent with the evidence.
Also looked at whether there could have been a shot from the front. They had an expert in head wounds from gun shots - he suggested the way the skull fractured, it could have only been from the back.
They then talked about why his body would have jerked backward - they suggested with such a head blow it would trigger muscle/nerve reflex - because back muscles are stronger than abdominal a jerking back can be expected.
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I like how you completely ignore the photo I posted from 4 days before the assassination, and instead post a random smattering of photos that could have been taken anytime, anywhere.
In fact, there was an increased awareness of a threat against JFK in the months leading up to Dallas. There was an assassination plot uncovered in Chicago that aborted a planned trip by JFK, just 3 weeks before Dallas. There was also the threat in Tampa that I already posted, which showed beefed up security around this president.
Consider this photo of JFK's motorcade in Tampa.
I count 2 SS agents on the back of the limo, and 4 visible flanking motorcycles, with a probable 5th one on the right hand side out of camera view. These motorcycles were in place to prevent crossfire and were also conveniently missing just 4 days later.
A couple observations/questions- which secret service men are you referring to in this pic? I see 3 (might be 4) SS men standing on the follow up car. Possibly 2 SS agents kneeling or sitting in the President's limo, but certainly not standing. With regards to the picture you posted a few posts ago, I am not so sure that the SS men are even standing on the rear bumper of that limo- looks like they are possibly walking at ground level- difficult to tell though.
Anyway, my point is you can't say that it was completely unusual or out of the ordinary for them to not be on the limo in Dallas.
Last edited by Flabbibulin; 11-16-2013 at 10:39 PM.
Anyway, my point is you can't say that it was completely unusual or out of the ordinary for them to not be on the limo in Dallas.
The bewildered body language of the Secret Service Agent tells me he thinks it was completely unusual and veryout of the ordinary!
Think about what you just saw for a moment. The man who's only job was to protect the back of JFK's head from a sniper is already in position, running alongside the limo as it pulls away from the airport. Then, at the very last moment, he is signaled by his superior officer in the follow-up car to leave his post, and he watches in dismay (shrugging his shoulders in disbelief 3 times!) as the motorcade pulls away and leaves him stranded at the airport. All of this is done behind the presidents back, without him noticing a thing. 20 minutes later, JFK was shot dead, allegedly from a sniper in a position that could have easily been foiled had the Agent still been there to throw his own body on top of the presidents at the sound of the first shot. And that's assuming Oswald would have even had a clear shot at JFK through the human shield anyways!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flabbibulin
A couple observations/questions- which secret service men are you referring to in this pic? I see 3 (might be 4) SS men standing on the follow up car. Possibly 2 SS agents kneeling or sitting in the President's limo, but certainly not standing. With regards to the picture you posted a few posts ago, I am not so sure that the SS men are even standing on the rear bumper of that limo- looks like they are possibly walking at ground level- difficult to tell though.
You are getting too nitpicky here. I've shown between the 2 photographs that only 4 days before the assassination, in a similar city-tour style motorcade, the Secret Service had 2 Agents on the back of his limo and an armada of motorcycles protecting his flanks. In the first photo the Agent on the left of the car has his right arm hooked through the hand rail, and the one on the right of the car is clearly holding onto his hand rail with his left hand. They seen to be elevated and there are no shadows or feet visible underneath the bumper that would indicate walking. The Agent on the left side of the car looks like hes just barely hanging on to me! While they may not be visible in the 2nd photo (I may have mistaken 2 agents in the follow-up car as the limo agents), I see no reason to believe they aren't still there, as they were photographed there earlier in the motorcade.
On the stabilized Zapruder film that Delthefunky posted earlier, upon the motorcade entering the kill-zone, there are 2 motorcycles way out in front of the limo, and 4 motorcycles flanking the follow-up car for some reason. You can plainly see, with no agents on the back of the limo and no limo-flanking motorcyles, JFK was driven into Dealy Plaza like duck on a platter.
Last edited by FunkMasterFlame; 11-17-2013 at 12:59 AM.
The program was quite interesting. Basically said the behavior the bullet would exhibit passing through bodies is consistent with the evidence.
Also looked at whether there could have been a shot from the front. They had an expert in head wounds from gun shots - he suggested the way the skull fractured, it could have only been from the back.
They then talked about why his body would have jerked backward - they suggested with such a head blow it would trigger muscle/nerve reflex - because back muscles are stronger than abdominal a jerking back can be expected.
Even a tree will "spring back" when you shoot it if it go's threw it. Physics!
It's always bugged me that people can't figure out that when you see JFK's head explode on the right side with spatter to the front that the bullet had to come from behind,It doesn't matter what you shoot, a tree, a watermelon or a head it's all the same...it's an exit wound.
When I first saw the Zapruder film sometime in the 80's I kept looking for something behind and maybe slightly to the left yet everyone was still talking about some pawn 30 or 40 feet above to the right or even worst the grassy knoll directly to the right.
Always thought it was stupid and still do.
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I'm going to get a little nitpicky here myself, but most of the photos Flabi posted showing that leaving the president is the norm just doesn't pass my smell test.
This one appears to be taken on an Airport runway, there are unmanned motorcycles in the foreground and the Agents in the background aren't even in their car yet. Clearly this motorcade is not even running yet.
This next one is taken in front of the Washington Monument in DC, the "home-base" of the president, and what I would consider a secure and fortified location.
Washington
Washington
And while I can't tell where the other 2 photos you provided were taken, I don't think you can either. While I've provided the source and relevant date of my images, you have yet to show where you sourced these images from, or when they were taken. For all we know they could all have been taken in during JFK's inaugural parade in 1960 when there wasn't a looming threat on the presidents life.
Last edited by FunkMasterFlame; 11-17-2013 at 01:57 AM.
Even a tree will "spring back" when you shoot it if it go's threw it. Physics!
It's always bugged me that people can't figure out that when you see JFK's head explode on the right side with spatter to the front that the bullet had to come from behind,It doesn't matter what you shoot, a tree, a watermelon or a head it's all the same...it's an exit wound.
When I first saw the Zapruder film sometime in the 80's I kept looking for something behind and maybe slightly to the left yet everyone was still talking about some pawn 30 or 40 feet above to the right or even worst the grassy knoll directly to the right.
Always thought it was stupid and still do.
I remember once shooting The Yellow Pages with a .45 rifle, and the entry side was a clean hole, while the exit side was a shredded mess. The Zapruder film to me looks like something from behind the President.
