Mother who drowned her two sons, commits suicide.

[K1LLswitch]

Until you have experienced the madness of living with and / or loving someone struggling with mental illness, you have no idea what the mind when sick is capable of.

I feel bad for the father. I feel bad for the kids. I feel bad for her.

People don't realize that the mind is no different than any other illness. You don't choose to get cancer. You don't choose to have a mental illness. No matter how much you try, neither cancer or a mental illness will get better without help and treatment. Regardless of treatment, some cancer is terminal, and in the case of this mental illness, it was too.

Sad for all involved.

[Minnie]

Thanks for the link, Dion. I had not heard that about her father, when the story first broke. The man bears huge culpability in this outcome. I hope he suffers greatly, when his time comes.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I guess where we disagree is whether the system should 100% cure someone or if they bear some responsibilty at some point.

The courts found her culpable for ending the lives of her children. That isnt the system, it is a sick, sick person.

Making sure the person isn't a danger to themselves or others is where the system failed. Having a suicidal mother caring for her children is a time bomb waiting to go off.

Further to that she had a history of depression and suicidal tendances dating back to when her father molested her and got her pregnant. The warning signs were there and got missed.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Dion

Making sure the person isn't a danger to themselves or others is where the system failed. Having a suicidal mother caring for her children is a time bomb waiting to go off.

Further to that she had a history of depression and suicidal tendances dating back to when her father molested her and got her pregnant. The warning signs were there and got missed.

You are making a lot of assumptions based on hindsight and with very limited information. What do you plan on doing, removing the children with every mother who has PPD or a history of depression? There are a lot of women who have suicidal ideations who care for their children, they aren't time bombs (which is a slightly offensive term to use). Honestly, I don't see this as a case of a health care system failing but rather as a tragic loss of three lives due to mental illness.

Do you know if she was receiving any treatment or anything other than what you read in the newspapers?

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by K1LLswitch

People don't realize that the mind is no different than any other illness. You don't choose to get cancer. You don't choose to have a mental illness. No matter how much you try, neither cancer or a mental illness will get better without help and treatment. Regardless of treatment, some cancer is terminal, and in the case of this mental illness, it was too.

Sad for all involved.

Very important post. I think people need to understand that blaming someone with Mental Illness for acting in a manner that isn't normal to you is akin to blaming an epileptic for having a seizure or a person with heart disease having a heart attack. These are the symptoms of the disease.

It's a pretty ####ing horrible existence.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

You are making a lot of assumptions based on hindsight and with very limited information. What do you plan on doing, removing the children with every mother who has PPD or a history of depression? There are a lot of women who have suicidal ideations who care for their children, they aren't time bombs (which is a slightly offensive term to use). Honestly, I don't see this as a case of a health care system failing but rather as a tragic loss of three lives due to mental illness.

Do you know if she was receiving any treatment or anything other than what you read in the newspapers?

Yes I am making some assumptions and no I do not want the children removed. She has a history that dates back to the sexual abuse she got from her father which she attempted suicide for the first time. Mental health care in this province is difficult to access and woefully inadequate with limited programs and long waits resulting in many affected people falling through the cracks in the system. It's my opinion is she fell through those cracks.

A person with suicidal ideations is a ticking time bomb. I'm suprised you would think that thoughts of suicide should be ignored.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Dion

Yes I am making some assumptions and no I do not want the children removed. She has a history that dates back to the sexual abuse she got from her father which she attempted suicide for the first time. Mental health care in this province is difficult to access and woefully inadequate with limited programs and long waits resulting in many affected people falling through the cracks in the system. It's my opinion is she fell through those cracks.

A person with suicidal ideations is a ticking time bomb. I'm suprised you would think that thoughts of suicide should be ignored.

No, a person with suicidal ideations is not a ticking time bomb that is going to eventually go off. There are plenty of people who have had thoughts of suicide (myself included actually) who have no plans to actually commit suicide. I think it is offensive to think that saying that people who don't view someone as a "ticking time bomb" are ignoring the problem. I am not ignoring it but I also know that it doesn't guarantee that an individual with suicidal ideations is going to attempt to commit suicide.

Do I think that there are gaps in mental health care provided to people in Alberta (and the world in general) absolutely. Do I think that I would want to go out, not knowing the facts and blindly state that the health care system is to blame for this, no. I do know that there is screening for PPD and suicidal ideations during healthy beginnings appointments when a nurse will go around to the house and an Edinburgh Postpartum Depression Scale (an evidence based scale) is administered. If there are red flags they are put into contact with a mental health professional, as well as peer supports such as new mothers groups are available to the mother. The fact is though that if someone is not an imminent risk to themselves or others they can not be detained under a form in the Alberta Mental Health Act.

It is tragic what happened here but at the end of the day to blindly state that the health care system failed her and her children isn't a productive approach. Especially since there are a great number of services that exist for women who do have PPD. Are they 100% effective, no of course not, but absolutely no treatment in all of medicine is.

http://www.albertahealthservices.ca/...rvice&rid=7624

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

No, a person with suicidal ideations is not a ticking time bomb that is going to eventually go off. There are plenty of people who have had thoughts of suicide (myself included actually) who have no plans to actually commit suicide. I think it is offensive to think that saying that people who don't view someone as a "ticking time bomb" are ignoring the problem. I am not ignoring it but I also know that it doesn't guarantee that an individual with suicidal ideations is going to attempt to commit suicide.

Thoughts of suicide is a cry for help. While it may not mean a person is going to do it it does mean there a problem that needs to be treated. That person also has to watched closely and in this case it appears she wasn't.

You may think it isn't productive but in my view it raises questions why someone with a history of depression and suicide attemps got to a state where she killed her children.

Do I think that there are gaps in mental health care provided to people in Alberta (and the world in general) absolutely. Do I think that I would want to go out, not knowing the facts and blindly state that the health care system is to blame for this, no. I do know that there is screening for PPD and suicidal ideations during healthy beginnings appointments when a nurse will go around to the house and an Edinburgh Postpartum Depression Scale (an evidence based scale) is administered. If there are red flags they are put into contact with a mental health professional, as well as peer supports such as new mothers groups are available to the mother. The fact is though that if someone is not an imminent risk to themselves or others they can not be detained under a form in the Alberta Mental Health Act.

It is tragic what happened here but at the end of the day to blindly state that the health care system failed her and her children isn't a productive approach. Especially since there are a great number of services that exist for women who do have PPD. Are they 100% effective, no of course not, but absolutely no treatment in all of medicine is.

http://www.albertahealthservices.ca/...rvice&rid=7624

Do you have any proof she was suffering from PPD. Or are you making assumptions like me?

I do understand about someone not being a risk to themselves or others. However during the trial it was reported.... " Since the drownings, McConnell has made numerous suicide attempts." "Officers also found a rope tied to a joist in the basement. A chair was sitting underneath." "On the morning of Feb. 1, 2010, McConnell drove to Edmonton, parked at a toy store, ordered lunch and then tried to kill herself by jumping off a bridge onto a busy freeway." How is someone like that released and deported?

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Proof that she had post partum depression... Other than it being reported in the media and in court? Google her name and post partum depression.

As for why she was released, her sentence had ended, so there is that. You can't hold people arbitrarily for extended periods of time. Why she was deported... She was convicted of a criminal offence, Australia has a quality health care system and she would be closer to support systems. Frankly her being deported was likely the best thing that could have happened to her.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Proof that she had post partum depression... Other than it being reported in the media and in court? Google her name and post partum depression.

Clearly I missed that in all my readings. Thanks for pointing that out

As for why she was released, her sentence had ended, so there is that. You can't hold people arbitrarily for extended periods of time. Why she was deported... She was convicted of a criminal offence, Australia has a quality health care system and she would be closer to support systems. Frankly her being deported was likely the best thing that could have happened to her.

Yes her sentence had ended, my worries were was she stable enough mentaly to be released from the hospital that she was in before she got deported. Especially when she said in trail proceedings..."During her trial she told the court that her future held "probably more tried and failed suicide attempts".

For sure her going home was better in the respect she would get support from her mother. I just question the timing of her release.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

They couldn't hold her indefinitely. There is the potential of a Form 1 however with no immediate threat it would be quickly appealed in all likelihood. Essentially what you seem to be arguing for is institutionalisation of anyone who is a remote suicide risk in order to prevent the potential of anyone committing suicide. What you may want to argue for is an increased sentence which could take place in a mental health setting.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

They couldn't hold her indefinitely. There is the potential of a Form 1 however with no immediate threat it would be quickly appealed in all likelihood. Essentially what you seem to be arguing for is institutionalisation of anyone who is a remote suicide risk in order to prevent the potential of anyone committing suicide. What you may want to argue for is an increased sentence which could take place in a mental health setting.

If someone is a remote suicide risk i'd like to see them assesed by someone in the mental health field. Further to that easier access to programs without the long waiting lists. Yeah, I know, that's wishful thinking on my part.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Dion

If someone is a remote suicide risk i'd like to see them assesed by someone in the mental health field. Further to that easier access to programs without the long waiting lists. Yeah, I know, that's wishful thinking on my part.

She was assessed, she was at Alberta Hospital Forensics for her sentence. I don't disagree that issues exist in the system, this doesn't appear to be one of those cases though.

[SeeBass]

I wouldn't want to be the guy who got stuck sitting beside her on a 14 hour flight to Australia.