Drug testing for welfare

[jayswin]

From a lot of CaptainCrucnh's posts, I get the feeling he'd be happier living somewhere down the States, than here in Canada. And that's not a shot, just an observation.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by flameswin

From a lot of CaptainCrucnh's posts, I get the feeling he'd be happier living somewhere down the States, than here in Canada. And that's not a shot, just an observation.

You'd be entirely wrong. I don't share a lot of the opinions and laws that my American friends follow.

I don't think there's anything wrong with investigating for Welfare and UI fraud.

If you look at my stance on gun control, I'm a lot more hardcore then a lot of Canadians in my stance on that in terms of availability of weapons and why the 2nd amendment is foolish and needs to be tossed.

I'm fine with grass legalization, as long as there is a taxation benefit and it is kept out of the hands of young minds.

I think Drug Dealers and especially hard drug dealers should be hung.

I think that child molesters and rapists should be castrated and jailed forever.

I am for forever prison terms for multiple time violent offenders.

I am liberal in a lot of my stances and conservative in others.

No I wouldn't be happier in the States, I think Canada strikes a better balance between the hand of compassion and the firmer hand of justice.

I like my Prime Minister and some aspects of the government, but have problems with other areas, but I'm not bound by political ideology like they are in the States.

I don't think we should get militarily involved in Syria, I think we should do our best to protect the refugees and innocent civilians in that country though.

I'm proud that I served in the Military, and some of the places outside of our borders that I was deployed to made me appreciate what this country is all about and how great it is.

I don't know. I get tired of getting labeled as some kind of rabid right winger hawk.

/rant

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Matata

Drug tests also show false positives ~10% of the time, which is a pretty crappy reason to starve a single mother of 4 children.

Is that true? That stat doesn't seem right

[pseudoreality]

Originally Posted by Cyclops

Drug testing turns the pot smoker into a user of heavier drugs that won't show up after 2 or 3 days, this is one of the many reasons why drug testing is a joke and somewhat counter-productive.

I don't think that's a real concern. I have friends who smoked weed regularly, but had to give it up because of employment drug tests. None of them turned to hard drugs.

Some of the talk here reminds me of when Dee and Dennis smoked crack to fraud the welfare system.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Thor]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I think you missed my point Psyc. I'm more concerned with people collecting welfare that really shouldn't be on welfare.

I'm all for random checkups on people not in terms of drug usage, but to make sure that the conditions that put them in the system are still existing conditions. that's why we pay Welfare agents and EI agents.

Ok. So we catch John on drugs, has an addiction problem. He now receives nothing, what happens next?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Thor

Ok. So we catch John on drugs, has an addiction problem. He now receives nothing, what happens next?

I'm not saying he gets nothing or he gets instantly cut off. Maybe he's offered help. Maybe there conditions put on him continuing to be on Welfare, I don't know.

[Erick Estrada]

There is likely an estimated statistical breakdown of the people/families that receive welfare from the legit to not so legit but I don't pretend to know the breakdown of each in percent but the issue is that drug users probably aren't the only fraudulent group and can it be proven that they are even the largest group of offenders?

-People on welfare that are in situations where they actuall need it
-People that simply don't want to work
-People that have a drug addiction
-Scammers that work for cash and collect welfare
-Etc.

Does anyone really think that drug testing is going to make a major dent in welfare fraud? I don't think it would warrant the cost of the random testing and other applicable costs.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I'm not saying he gets nothing or he gets instantly cut off. Maybe he's offered help. Maybe there conditions put on him continuing to be on Welfare, I don't know.

What kind of help is he offered? How do you address the conditions for which he finds himself on welfare?

[Street Pharmacist]

This reminds me of my learning of how to deal with shoplifters.

After much anger and consternation I had to accept that unfortunately, theft is going to be a cost of doing business. And most loss prevention methods cost more than they recover. A guard might limit theft, but will cost more than the theft they prevent. Putting doors over the fragrances decreased sales enough that I lost more sales than theft.

In the end, customer service and greeting customers, offering baskets to carry goods, etc was my only option, as frustrating as that is.

There will always be welfare fraud, but spending millions to prevent it will just cost us more and infringe on rights.

[MaDMaN_26]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

You'd be entirely wrong. I don't share a lot of the opinions and laws that my American friends follow.

I don't think there's anything wrong with investigating for Welfare and UI fraud.

If you look at my stance on gun control, I'm a lot more hardcore then a lot of Canadians in my stance on that in terms of availability of weapons and why the 2nd amendment is foolish and needs to be tossed.

I'm fine with grass legalization, as long as there is a taxation benefit and it is kept out of the hands of young minds.

I think Drug Dealers and especially hard drug dealers should be hung.

I think that child molesters and rapists should be castrated and jailed forever.

I am for forever prison terms for multiple time violent offenders.

I am liberal in a lot of my stances and conservative in others.

No I wouldn't be happier in the States, I think Canada strikes a better balance between the hand of compassion and the firmer hand of justice.

I like my Prime Minister and some aspects of the government, but have problems with other areas, but I'm not bound by political ideology like they are in the States.

I don't think we should get militarily involved in Syria, I think we should do our best to protect the refugees and innocent civilians in that country though.

I'm proud that I served in the Military, and some of the places outside of our borders that I was deployed to made me appreciate what this country is all about and how great it is.

I don't know. I get tired of getting labeled as some kind of rabid right winger hawk.

/rant

Hippy

[puckluck2]

On the surface, without giving it much thought you say "yeah, great idea, get those bums!", but where do you stop? Why should someone who drinks and smokes or gambles get money while the drug addict doesn't?

[Thor]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I'm not saying he gets nothing or he gets instantly cut off. Maybe he's offered help. Maybe there conditions put on him continuing to be on Welfare, I don't know.

Thats the problem, a lot of people love the idea of drug testing, its a way to give it to those "mooches" living the high life off our dime....

They are offered help, great, I like that idea, more taxes though and you know how that will fly with conservatives in Canada.

The problem is the reality, the Florida example showed in start detail how not only was the drug testing a complete and utter failure as there was less than the national average of people using drugs on welfare, and the program costs WAY more than the testing costed the state.

Now more socially speaking, we have a contract that we uphold, we pay for prisoners to be imprisoned, we pay for poor to get support (albeit welfare is ridiculously low), and if you want to drug test people the implication is that these people do not deserve this paltry money if they are using drugs.

Now lets look at the situation of these people on welfare, this is a segment of society with way higher instances of people who have mental problems, from abusive families, relationships, etc.. Drug use you would think would be higher in this segment, but it is not.

I'm all for going after unemployment scammers, but sorry I'm not going after a segment of society that so desperately needs our help. Hell I would do a lot more, akin to what they do in the Nordic countries and would gladly pay more taxes to have a successful system that gives people on welfare a chance to get out, unlike is often the case in the US and sadly Canada too.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Is that true? That stat doesn't seem right

http://www.webmd.com/news/20100528/d...alse-positives

It's kind of a double edged sword, I know quite a few people who should have failed drug tests, but didn't. In my experience, people who should fail drug tests don't get caught ~95% of the time. In Alberta anyways.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Explain please.

There are free addictions counselling clinics in Canada. You weren't aware of that? My best friend's sister just went through detox this way.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

On the surface, without giving it much thought you say "yeah, great idea, get those bums!", but where do you stop? Why should someone who drinks and smokes or gambles get money while the drug addict doesn't?

Nailed it.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Can I give the Government a Drug Test when I pay my taxes?

[johnnyrocket03]

Originally Posted by Matata

http://www.webmd.com/news/20100528/d...alse-positives

It's kind of a double edged sword, I know quite a few people who should have failed drug tests, but didn't. In my experience, people who should fail drug tests don't get caught ~95% of the time. In Alberta anyways.

This article is too broad, it doesnt say whether its urine, hair or saliva testing or whether its an instant test or a lab based test (for urine and saliva)

There can be false positives for instant tests but a lab based test with an MRO review will not have a false positive.

[para transit fellow]

what is to stop a drug test requirement related to our GST cheques?

[chalms04]

Originally Posted by ernie

I know this may not be the popular view but do we test people for drugs to use the roads or the park? Simplistic example I know but I would think the abuse of the system is of much more of a concern than the addict using the welfare money for drugs.

Drug testing, no, but we should be checking IDs to see if they're from parasite communities.

[TorqueDog]

A friend posted this same thing on her Facebook and I share the same opinion as most of you - this is an incredibly stupid and short-sighted idea.

I went on a bit of a rant but basically it a) doesn't save money, b) paints all social assistance recipients as drug users rather unjustly if you look at the stats, c) ignores the perfectly LEGAL stimulants and so-on that a person might use/abuse, and d) is basically a great way to cause crime to escalate. You put someone at rock bottom and they will do whatever is in their power to survive.