I'm going to get in trouble if I post my non-PC views on this subject. I suppose at the end of the day that an infringement on anyones rights, even religions (which I consider a plague on society--all of them) is bad for everyone as it weakens all our freedoms.
Quite simply, it's thinly veiled racism and xenophopia.
It's "secularism" twisted up into a ball of fear and hate. A truer and healthy secular society is one where all people's rights are protected regardless of religious affiliation and no religion dominates political institutions whether by representation or law.
Unfortunately this is kind of the case. The french catholic institution isn't really affected by this proposed law in comparison to other religions. I'm surprised they didn't mention rastafarian caps in their proposed law.. not!
So, you'd be OK with me sacrificing virgins as part of my religion?
Seriously? We're talking about burqa's and the things you mentioned in your OP. When aspects of a religion are legal and acceptable in society, there is no reason to ban them because some people don't agree with them. In case you need an example:
Burqa's: OK
'Honor' killings: Not OK (and the VAST majority of Muslims agree)
Burqa's do not effect you in the least, and one could argue that many Muslim women do not find them oppressive at all. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean they need to be banned. Because that would be oppressive.
Seriously? We're talking about burqa's and the things you mentioned in your OP. When aspects of a religion are legal and acceptable in society, there is no reason to ban them because some people don't agree with them. In case you need an example:
Burqa's: OK
'Honor' killings: Not OK (and the VAST majority of Muslims agree)
Burqa's do not effect you in the least, and one could argue that many Muslim women do not find them oppressive at all. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean they need to be banned. Because that would be oppressive.
How are driver's licence and other ID addressed when a Burqa is involved? Is the photo taken without? If for some reason there is a need to ID the person under the burqa, how is that addressed?
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How are driver's licence and other ID addressed when a Burqa is involved? Is the photo taken without? If for some reason there is a need to ID the person under the burqa, how is that addressed?
I'm sure there's some kind of legislation regarding that already, but I don't know what it is.
Burqa's do not effect you in the least, and one could argue that many Muslim women do not find them oppressive at all. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean they need to be banned. Because that would be oppressive.
I'll argue that.
what do you think is behind the tradition of making your women(s) cover their face along with the rest of their bodies, and walk behind you at all times, come from.
Do you think it goes along with those other religious traditions of denying education, employment etc. to the burka wearing females.
The same females who aren't supposed to talk unless talked to by their man first?
Burkas are rooted in repression, not religious freedom.
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what do you think is behind the tradition of making your women(s) cover their face along with the rest of their bodies, and walk behind you at all times, come from.
Do you think it goes along with those other religious traditions of denying education, employment etc. to the burka wearing females.
The same females who aren't supposed to talk unless talked to by their man first?
Burkas are rooted in repression, not religious freedom.
Some things I agree with Duffman about, especially this. It would take years of brainwashing to convince someone to wear a burka, which from what I understand has no religous backing. The fact users claim they are happy wearing it is a testament to the brainwashing (for the most part).
This is not that much different from not letting your wife leave the house.
I don't feel proud of our religous freedoms when I see someone wearing one, I feel really bad for them.
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what do you think is behind the tradition of making your women(s) cover their face along with the rest of their bodies, and walk behind you at all times, come from.
Do you think it goes along with those other religious traditions of denying education, employment etc. to the burka wearing females.
The same females who aren't supposed to talk unless talked to by their man first?
Burkas are rooted in repression, not religious freedom.
Fair enough: but to ban something that some Muslim women feel they need to wear would be also be cruel. It's exactly like the PQ gov't trying to make it so that public employees cannot wear any religious headwear. These are symbols of religion to these people. As an atheist, I'm admittedly ignorant of the significance of most religious attire, but because I support freedom of religion I respect their right to wear it. Just like I respect the right of a Christian to wear a cross around their neck.
Quite simply, it's thinly veiled racism and xenophopia.
It's "secularism" twisted up into a ball of fear and hate. A truer and healthy secular society is one where all people's rights are protected regardless of religious affiliation and no religion dominates political institutions whether by representation or law.
This is exactly it. They're basically just saying the only way to present yourself in public is the European/Christian way.
Edit: This law also goes way beyond the issues with Burqas. The Burqa issue is really a tough one. Here's another question though, if we ban Burqas, aren't controlling men just going to ban their women from leaving their home?
Edit: This law also goes way beyond the issues with Burqas. The Burqa issue is really a tough one. Here's another question though, if we ban Burqas, aren't controlling men just going to ban their women from leaving their home?
Thinking about it, I don't think I've ever seen a women out & about wearing a burqa in Calgary. The head scarves yes, but not burqa's.
So if this law goes through in Quebec, does it also prohibit public workers from wearing a cross necklace, displaying cross tattoos & such?
As far left-wing as I am, I must admit I have some non-PC sentiments on this issue. Yes the bill is ridiculous, but I can't help but feel it has some valuable elements.
When I see a woman wearing a burqa, I feel incredibly sorry for her, and think about the misogynistic hatred over hundreds of years that went into her being forced (coerced) to wear it.
One thing I will say is that many people advocate cultural relativism as some sort of "liberal" value. When in actuality, cultural relativism is often the aegis under which oppression of groups is tacitly endorsed.
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Thinking about it, I don't think I've ever seen a women out & about wearing a burqa in Calgary. The head scarves yes, but not burqa's.
So if this law goes through in Quebec, does it also prohibit public workers from wearing a cross necklace, displaying cross tattoos & such?
Theoretically. I cannot see any Quebec agencies enforcing bans on Christian symbols. Quebec is still very Catholic in its roots. The public backlash would be huge.
That being said, maybe they will go into the small towns of Quebec and prevent people from wearing crosses. That would, at the very least, provide some resemblance of fairness to this bill. That being said, Christianity does not require a cross as a religious tenant. Orthodox Sikh, Jewish, and Muslim religious nominations do requires headware.
Freedom of religion is freedom of religion. You either support it or you don't. You can't pick and choose the aspects of a religion that you agree and say those are okay, and support banning the ones you disagree with, especially when it really doesn't effect anyone else.
Human rights before religious rights IMO. Certain religions preach homophobia and opresses women. If you support your religion over human rights you may as well be Aryan race as far as I'm concerned.
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How are driver's licence and other ID addressed when a Burqa is involved? Is the photo taken without? If for some reason there is a need to ID the person under the burqa, how is that addressed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyah
I'm sure there's some kind of legislation regarding that already, but I don't know what it is.
I was listening to a debate on the radio about what is happening in Quebec and one of the things mentioned was that it also bans them from wearing them for driver's license photos... so it sounded to me like it was allowed before.
I think people have the right to express themselves by what they wear (except for identification photos), whether religious or not. Some muslim women feel that it shows modesty and that it is a very feminine and beautiful trait to promote. It's not all based in oppression if it is their choice.
Oppressing religious, cultural and national expression does nothing in the long run. It only creates resentment which will eventually boil over.
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