Should players, sports organizations, or the whole COC boycott the Sochi Olympics?

[Thor]

Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19

I would applaud any athlete who chose to do this.

I'd like to see countries like Canada select gay athletes to carry the flag. And I like the rainbow flag idea. If there was ever a time to make a statement it's the opening ceremony.

Yeah this would be the ultimate way to protest this, and I hope some nations do, we should tell our mayor in Iceland to suggest this for our very tiny olympic team.

[Diemenz]

I am all for the imprisonment of the dutch but strictly because they are dutch not because of their sexual orientation.

Will athletes that are openly gay be ostracized by the gay community if they do not boycott? I would imagine spending 15+ years training for a chance to compete in the Olympics only to be faced with this choice would bring on an extremely difficult personal dilemma.

[CaptainCrunch]

I think you'd get very little traction in terms of national boycotts. There are lots of nations out there that don't give a fig for homosexual rights. I doubt China, the United States and others would do a boycott. You might get Canada, its not like the government in place has been anti-homosexual.

In effect I do think that a boycott would have to come at an individual athlete or a group athlete level.

The question though is, would a athlete possibly give up an olympic career and a life time of training and dreaming for this issue, that's asking a lot.

As it stands very few nations have a lot of influence in Russia right now, Putin is intent on a resurgent strong superpower status for that country and its apparent that he doesn't care about the opinions and protests of other nations (Snowden affair, Syria, mass arctic military excercises, massive military build up).

I doubt you'll see a boycott like the LA Olympics and the Moscow Olympics ever happen unless Putin orders all gays to be gassed.

[Rathji]

I have a gay coworker, and asked her about this just now, her response was that it would be much better to use the Olympics in Sochi as a world stage to bring more attention to the issue rather than impact the hard work of so many amateur athletes.

Something that makes a statement during the opening ceremonies, like flags or prominent gay athletes or something that is obviously promoting equality.

[valo403]

Not to Godwin this, but what if this was the 1936 Berlin games? Should that have been boycotted?

These American sprinters, both Jewish, boycotted in 1936 http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/..._green&lang=en

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by valo403

Honestly, #### the IOC. I would love to see an entire country or individual athletes do just that, and I think that's the best course of action. Force the IOC to come down hard on someone taking that stand, let's see how well that goes over. The IOC, like FIFA, is starting to skate on thin ice. People aren't as content to just sit back and let these corrupt fiefdoms do as they wish, if they start punishing people for speaking out in favor of human rights they can expect to see that ice thin considerably.

Would you support athletes from the American south walking in carrying flags with the confederate cross? Or to completely Godwin this discussion, what about a Nazi flag? Is this a free speech issue for you, or a "speech I agree with" issue?

The IOC has a great many faults, but wanting to keep the Games themselves apolitical is not one of them.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by valo403

Not to Godwin this, but what if this was the 1936 Berlin games? Should that have been boycotted?

These American sprinters, both Jewish, boycotted in 1936 http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/..._green&lang=en

That's the problem, it wasn't a global world back then, how much did people know about Hitler and his government in 1936. Hitler was still 3 years from launching his war. It was still nearly a decade before people learned about the true final solution.

Plus his aryan uber-man and antisemitism was agreed to by a lot of the nations of the world at the time.

[sevenarms]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

That's the problem, it wasn't a global world back then, how much did people know about Hitler and his government in 1936. Hitler was still 3 years from launching his war. It was still nearly a decade before people learned about the true final solution.

Plus his aryan uber-man and antisemitism was agreed to by a lot of the nations of the world at the time.

Jesse Owens won 4 golds at the Berlin Olympics. Athletes like him were a huge slap to the face of so-called Aryan supremacy.

[MRCboicgy]

This is where I wish we had a gay high-profile hockey player - having him be a part of the team that wins gold (not a given, I know) would be the best - especially if over the Russians on their home soil.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by sevenarms

Jesse Owens won 4 golds at the Berlin Olympics. Athletes like him were a huge slap to the face of so-called Aryan supremacy.

Yup, that was a major historical event. But it certainly didn't change Hitler or the German mind about superiority.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Would you support athletes from the American south walking in carrying flags with the confederate cross? Or to completely Godwin this discussion, what about a Nazi flag? Is this a free speech issue for you, or a "speech I agree with" issue?

The IOC has a great many faults, but wanting to keep the Games themselves apolitical is not one of them.

How about a human rights issue? You present two examples of egregious violations of human rights as comparables? Really?

As for the games being apolitical, okay

[valo403]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

That's the problem, it wasn't a global world back then, how much did people know about Hitler and his government in 1936. Hitler was still 3 years from launching his war. It was still nearly a decade before people learned about the true final solution.

Plus his aryan uber-man and antisemitism was agreed to by a lot of the nations of the world at the time.

That's kind of my point, if it was a global world would you support a boycott? Obviously the degree of abuses was higher than that in modern day Russia, so I guess the question is at what point are the abuses enough to justify a boycott?

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by valo403

Not to Godwin this, but what if this was the 1936 Berlin games? Should that have been boycotted?

These American sprinters, both Jewish, boycotted in 1936 http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/..._green&lang=en

Jesse Owens dominating those Olympics in front of Hitler is one of the greatest moments in sports history. Boycotting them would have accomplished nothing, but would prevented Owens from showing the world that Hitler's racial comments were complete nonsense. I'd hate to take away the opportunity for a gay athlete to be this century's Jesse Owens in Sochi.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by valo403

That's kind of my point, if it was a global world would you support a boycott? Obviously the degree of abuses was higher than that in modern day Russia, so I guess the question is at what point are the abuses enough to justify a boycott?

Its an impossible question to ask, while Hitler's final solution hadn't been revealed. Most nations of the world had racist policies in 1936, and people were fine with it. Most European nations in 1936 were heavily antisemitic. England was fine with Hitler at the time, America didn't care all that much about Hitler. Global World or not, until Hitler unleashed his military they were fine with his wacky theories.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Its an impossible question to ask, while Hitler's final solution hadn't been revealed. Most nations of the world had racist policies in 1936, and people were fine with it. Most European nations in 1936 were heavily antisemitic. England was fine with Hitler at the time, America didn't care all that much about Hitler. Global World or not, until Hitler unleashed his military they were fine with his wacky theories.

To further your point the list of that boycotted the 76 games in response to the All Blacks' tour. Notice anything??:

Spoiler!

• Algeria
• Cameroon
• Central African Republic
• Chad
• People's Republic of the Congo
• Egypt
• Ethiopia
• Gabon
• Gambia
• Ghana
• Guyana
• Iraq
• Kenya
• Libya
• Lesotho
• Madagascar

• Malawi
• Mali
• Morocco
• Niger
• Nigeria
• Republic of China
• Somalia
• Sudan
• Swaziland
• Tanzania
• Togo
• Tunisia
• Uganda
• Upper Volta
• Zambia

[valo403]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Its an impossible question to ask, while Hitler's final solution hadn't been revealed. Most nations of the world had racist policies in 1936, and people were fine with it. Most European nations in 1936 were heavily antisemitic. England was fine with Hitler at the time, America didn't care all that much about Hitler. Global World or not, until Hitler unleashed his military they were fine with his wacky theories.

What about the second question? This is a modern interconnected world, so at what point do human rights or other abuses become enough to make a boycott okay? I honestly paid very little attention to the Beijing games in any capacity so I don't recall if there was any talk of boycott there, but should there have been? What if Russia's policy was based upon race as well as sexuality? Would that be enough?

Btw, I'm not calling on you to decide one way or the other here, I'm just sort of spitballing on the idea of where you draw the line.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by valo403

How about a human rights issue? You present two examples of egregious violations of human rights as comparables? Really?

Yes, and that's the point. The opening ceremonies can be about the athletes and nations, or it can be about political statements. And if you want to allow one type of political statement, then you should be prepared to allow any.

[Flashpoint]

So I guess Putin isn't interested in watching men's figure skating?

That ought to be an interesting event to watch next year...

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Yes, and that's the point. The opening ceremonies can be about the athletes and nations, or it can be about political statements. And if you want to allow one type of political statement, then you should be prepared to allow any.

Nobody said anything about the IOC allowing anything, if someone from the Austrian team wants to march with a swastika on their shoulder they can do that, but I don't expect that to work out very well for them.

And please, let's not pretend that all speech is equal.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Yes, and that's the point. The opening ceremonies can be about the athletes and nations, or it can be about political statements. And if you want to allow one type of political statement, then you should be prepared to allow any.

Sorry, that does not follow. There is nothing inherently contradictory about saying "We are willing to break the rules to demonstrate our displeasure with egregious human rights violations, but no other reason is acceptable".

Whether this is the correct way to go or not is another question, but it doesn't at all follow that if you allow statements about human rights you necessarily should allow any kind of political statement. That's a false equivalency, because human rights are not a political issue the same way that, for example, the revived Confederacy is.