[News Roundup] The stigma of being the 6th pick: Johnson

[Walter Reed]

Originally Posted by jlh2640

Daniel Tkachuk and Rico Fata 2 of the biggest reasons why the Flames have been awful mid 90s and early 2000s.

I'm going to assume you are assigning this inditement at the feet of Flames scouting and management staff and not the players themselves. Tkachuk and Fata didn't make those selections, the team did.

[Erick Estrada]

While you can argue the Flames have had poor success picking at #6 Fata is the only truly terrible pick of the 3. I don't feel you can call a guy a bust because of career ending injury and I do recall other teams being interested in Tkaczuk and believe he would have been picked shortly after the Flames took him. Stillman had a really good career and was a victim of being part of the young guns era.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Stillman had a really good career and was a victim of being part of the young guns era.

Yup. There are three things I will always remember about Stillman's career:

1. In '03-04, he played for the Lightning, got 55 assists, and won the Stanley Cup (damn his eyes, or at any rate, damn somebody's eyes).

Some people scoffed at him, saying his numbers were inflated by the team he was on. So....

2. In '05-06, he played for the Hurricanes, got 55 assists, and won the Stanley Cup (un-damn his eyes).

3. The Flames got Conroy and Moss for him. Not as good as two Stanley Cup wins, but not a bad return, at that.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Keselke

He MIGHT of panned out, he doesn't get an automatic pass just because his career was halted by injuries, another equally likely scenario is that he could of been perfectly healthy and never amounted to anything.

But anyways regardless of the past, hopefully this 6th pick works out.

He was playing very well in Calgary at the time. It's not like he hadn't shown anything at the NHL level.

[albertGQ]

People that say Tzachuk was a bust are the ones that didn't see him play and only read what the media says. He was fantastic in his call up and would have been a star. Maybe even a superstar. I had high hopes for him.

[Vulcan]

“Go, play your heart out, listen and learn to adapt in the way the organization wants,” is his reply. “Sometimes that’s a role change. Maybe even a position change. Those are the difficult things prospects face. To make that team, I had to fit the Brian Sutter mold a bit. Right or wrong, that was the way.

What I remember of Tkaczuk is that as a fan he looked ready to me, but Brian Sutter wasn't so easily swayed. He treated him like Brent treated rookies, my way or the highway and don't screw up. I liked some aspects of Brian's coaching but Hartley seems to be a bit more forgiving.

[Pointman]

From what I remember and read now, Tkaczuk, as prospect, was somewhat similar to Monahan, isn't he (I've never seen either play)? Very good, but not elite prospects, all-around centers, not world-class skating, hard-working, decent size and some leadership.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

People that say Tzachuk was a bust are the ones that didn't see him play and only read what the media says. He was fantastic in his call up and would have been a star. Maybe even a superstar. I had high hopes for him.

No, I did see him play. Reminded me of Backlund, but with worse hockey sense.

[Badger Bob]

Tkaczuk has established good chemistry, centering for Val Bure. Tkaczuk only played a total of 19 NHL games for the Flames, 13 years ago, no less. So, be skeptical of anybody claiming to have vivid memories of watching him play.

Can't find a lot of detail, but here's a report on him from when he was drafted:

http://cflames.tripod.com/draft/

Scouting report: He is a high-scoring, two-way forward in his league. He is potentially a top two-way forward in the NHL. He has the skills to be a point-per-game player in the NHL. He will need to raise his play to an even higher level offensively next season, if he is going to be a legitimate offensive threat in the NHL.
Scouting notes: Offensive ability is very good; excels at offense through a good mixture of hard work and natural ability ... defensive play is very good; is a complete player including in his own end ... skating ability is good; skates well enough to effectively play his style of game ... physical play is good; became more physically aggressive as the season progressed ... attitude and work ethic is excellent; is a quality person on and off the ice.

So, where does the OP get "worse hockey sense" than Backlund? Then there was

he didn't have the pure skill to be an offensive player and didn't have the jam or strength to be a defensive player.

The report above had him pegged as a top two-way forward. So, maybe pro scouts just don't know as much as somebody posting on message board.

[Bingo]

wow pleasantly surprised in this topic to see the differentiation between Fata and Tkaczuk by most. I've grown so tired of them being lumped together as busts.

On draft day I loved the Tkaczuk pick but hated the Fata selection ... and I never bother with rejigging my thinking to work hindsite.

Only issue with the article I had was the injury ... he took a Shane Doan skate to the head at the Saddledome, that was the turning point. I interviewed him in the dressing room after and he was really woozy.

That was the same day I interviewed Bure ... was odd as he was my height (6'). Looked down and he was wearing these crazy Gene Simmons KISS boots. Odd dude.

Tkaczuk would have been a solid third line center at worst if he didn't get derailed.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

No, I did see him play. Reminded me of Backlund, but with worse hockey sense.

Laughable. He was a much better prospect than Backlund was, and I really like Backlund. Obviously you have never watched him play, or you are getting him confused with someone else. There was very good reason to be high on Tkaczuk, and posters that actually have seen him play coupled with the scouting reports on him give strength to that. He had everything needed to be a big part of the Flames' future, and had few deficiencies in his game other than the fact that he was a rookie and getting used to the NHL game.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Laughable. He was a much better prospect than Backlund was, and I really like Backlund. Obviously you have never watched him play, or you are getting him confused with someone else. There was very good reason to be high on Tkaczuk, and posters that actually have seen him play coupled with the scouting reports on him give strength to that. He had everything needed to be a big part of the Flames' future, and had few deficiencies in his game other than the fact that he was a rookie and getting used to the NHL game.

Yep. That is fair.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Bingo

wow pleasantly surprised in this topic to see the differentiation between Fata and Tkaczuk by most. I've grown so tired of them being lumped together as busts.

On draft day I loved the Tkaczuk pick but hated the Fata selection ... and I never bother with rejigging my thinking to work hindsite.

Only issue with the article I had was the injury ... he took a Shane Doan skate to the head at the Saddledome, that was the turning point. I interviewed him in the dressing room after and he was really woozy.

That was the same day I interviewed Bure ... was odd as he was my height (6'). Looked down and he was wearing these crazy Gene Simmons KISS boots. Odd dude.

Tkaczuk would have been a solid third line center at worst if he didn't get derailed.

Like a lot of young fans now as it relates to our recent 1st rounders, back when Fata and Tkaczuk were drafted, I thought they were both the best prospects in the world. I honestly liked both picks, but I didn't follow things as closely either.

Were all Tkachuk's concussion issues a result of freak incidents (like getting a skate to the head), or were any of them a result of just not being physically mature enough or a lack of NHL on-ice awareness?

The Flames were rushing a lot of prospects back then and I was just wondering if Tkachuk was at least partially a causalty of that.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Badger Bob

Tkaczuk has established good chemistry, centering for Val Bure. Tkaczuk only played a total of 19 NHL games for the Flames, 13 years ago, no less. So, be skeptical of anybody claiming to have vivid memories of watching him play.
.

Let's start of by ignoring the fact no one used the phrase "vivid memories"... But are you honestly suggesting people can't have good memories of something that happened a paltry 13 years ago?