Blackhawks' Success Should Give Us Hope

[Robbob]

they also lucked out winning the draft lotto. If they draft Sam gagner instead of Kane it is different story.

[FlamesAddiction]

I think Chicago is the prme example of not only good drafting, but also good player development. They take the diamonds in the rough and turn them into players, while other teams can't. I hate to say it, but I don't think we would have had the same results even if we drafted the exact same players.

[jeffman]

Also consider they have Teuvo Terranvainen and Drew Leblanc in the pipelines, they could be great for a long time

[The Swedish Flame]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

That's what I was thinking. "Change" in ownership is putting it mildly

I was trying to be nice

[thefoss1957]

A lot of luck was involved in the development of the Blackhawks, beyond the 2 picks, Toews (3rd overall) and Kane (1st overall...unique in 'Hawk history). After the Lockout in 2004, the 'Hawks D-Corps had only 1 returning D-Man, Jim Vandermeer. They signed Aucoin, Todd Simpson and Cullimore...and were going to fill with youngsters that Yawney had in Norfolk in 2004. Seabrook was a highly regarded draft pick, Keith was not as highly regarded, as undersized. Injuries to Aucoin meant that there was going to throw the youngsters into the deep end, and learn NHL defense "on the job". Unheralded Wisnewski was also tossed in. In the event, under their mentor, Yawns, Seabrook and Keith, and for 19 games, Wiz, outperformed the veteran players.

The point is, you never really know what a "prospect" can do, until they get a real chance at NHL minutes. Cam Barker was supposed to be the best D-draftee we had, but, never seemed to be able to learn how to play DEFENSE at the top level, and frankly seemed to lack the drive to improve that part of his game.

Sometimes patience in developing players is needed...and sometimes a team just has to take their lumps while waiting out the steep learning curve, especially with developing D-men.

Seabrook has turned out to be about what was expected...Keith far exceeds what was anticipated by "experts". Wiz, now in Columbus, was an amazing revelation, as nothing was expected of him, but was slowed by knee problems after some solid years in Chi.

There were some, for sure, mistakes in FA signings, and a lot of money wasted. The big splash for Khabibulin made no sense, with a team needing to be developed in front of him...Aucoin and Cullimore never really "clicked" with Yawns' system. Huet was overrated, and failed nearly impossible expectations.

My observations in team building, and I have been an NHL fan since Glenn Hall was in net for my guys, is that "big name" trades or signings need to be the finishing touch, and not the "foundation" of a team.

[Badger Bob]

Originally Posted by thefoss1957

After the Lockout in 2004, the 'Hawks D-Corps had only 1 returning D-Man, Jim Vandermeer. They signed Aucoin, Todd Simpson and Cullimore...and were going to fill with youngsters that Yawney had in Norfolk in 2004.

All but Cullimore were also former or future Flames.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by jeffman

Also consider they have Teuvo Terranvainen and Drew Leblanc in the pipelines, they could be great for a long time

Drew Leblanc is no longer under contract to the Hawks.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

The Hawks got lucky when Dollar Bill passed on. Praying for your owner to die seems like a long-shot path to success...

Thats the thing the Flames can learn....You can go from being the laughing stock of the league, to a highly respected organization if the owner puts the right people in the right positions and let's them do their jobs. Back in 2006 the Hawks couldn't sign any free agents despite having more cap space than pretty much anyone in the league, and no media bothered to have anyone follow the team on the road.

Look at that team today, it's probably one of the top 5 choices for any free agent, and they're as popular with the fan base as they ever have been.

They have done a pretty good job of making trades though...the Patrick Sharp for Matt Ellison deal makes the Phaneuf return look good.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by thefoss1957

A lot of luck was involved in the development of the Blackhawks, beyond the 2 picks, Toews (3rd overall) and Kane (1st overall...unique in 'Hawk history). After the Lockout in 2004, the 'Hawks D-Corps had only 1 returning D-Man, Jim Vandermeer. They signed Aucoin, Todd Simpson and Cullimore...and were going to fill with youngsters that Yawney had in Norfolk in 2004. Seabrook was a highly regarded draft pick, Keith was not as highly regarded, as undersized. Injuries to Aucoin meant that there was going to throw the youngsters into the deep end, and learn NHL defense "on the job". Unheralded Wisnewski was also tossed in. In the event, under their mentor, Yawns, Seabrook and Keith, and for 19 games, Wiz, outperformed the veteran players.

The point is, you never really know what a "prospect" can do, until they get a real chance at NHL minutes. Cam Barker was supposed to be the best D-draftee we had, but, never seemed to be able to learn how to play DEFENSE at the top level, and frankly seemed to lack the drive to improve that part of his game.

Sometimes patience in developing players is needed...and sometimes a team just has to take their lumps while waiting out the steep learning curve, especially with developing D-men.

Seabrook has turned out to be about what was expected...Keith far exceeds what was anticipated by "experts". Wiz, now in Columbus, was an amazing revelation, as nothing was expected of him, but was slowed by knee problems after some solid years in Chi.

There were some, for sure, mistakes in FA signings, and a lot of money wasted. The big splash for Khabibulin made no sense, with a team needing to be developed in front of him...Aucoin and Cullimore never really "clicked" with Yawns' system. Huet was overrated, and failed nearly impossible expectations.

My observations in team building, and I have been an NHL fan since Glenn Hall was in net for my guys, is that "big name" trades or signings need to be the finishing touch, and not the "foundation" of a team.

Quoted so people will read again

[WilderPegasus]

Originally Posted by thefoss1957

My observations in team building, and I have been an NHL fan since Glenn Hall was in net for my guys, is that "big name" trades or signings need to be the finishing touch, and not the "foundation" of a team.

I don't know if that's true in the Salary Cap era. Boston signing Chara was the foundation of their current success. But it does take a pretty special player to do that and there are only about a handful of those type of players in the league.

[saillias]

Why would the Blackhawks give me hope? If anything seeing that team makes me depressed at just how far away this franchise is from being a threat.

2 elite defenders, and an extremely solid bottom 4. A franchise center, three elite wingers, stellar drafting which replaces guys they can't pay anymore, and a great coach.

Analyzing the Hawks is like window shopping at a Lambo dealership.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Quoted so people will read again

Those highlighted parts also stress to me that BPA is the way to go in the draft. It takes patience and time to develop a core and you never know which prospects will develop and which won't, therefore it is virtually impossible to guess where the weaknesses will be in a few years.

When early in a rebuild, it's best to farm assets regardless of position, and then supplement with trades and signings when they are mature. Trying to force a template or structure this early seems futile when anything can happen between now and the next 3-5 years.

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Those highlighted parts also stress to me that BPA is the way to go in the draft. It takes patience and time to develop a core and you never know which prospects will develop and which won't, therefore it is virtually impossible to guess where the weaknesses will be in a few years.

When early in a rebuild, it's best to farm assets regardless of position, and then supplement with trades and signings when they are mature. Trying to force a template or structure this early seems futile when anything can happen between now and the next 3-5 years.

And not trade away 2nd and 3rd round picks.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Those highlighted parts also stress to me that BPA is the way to go in the draft. It takes patience and time to develop a core and you never know which prospects will develop and which won't, therefore it is virtually impossible to guess where the weaknesses will be in a few years.

When early in a rebuild, it's best to farm assets regardless of position, and then supplement with trades and signings when they are mature. Trying to force a template or structure this early seems futile when anything can happen between now and the next 3-5 years.

Agreed - stockpile assets.

However, I think it is important to continue to evaluate for the types of players you want on your team.

Also, while I agree on BPA, I think it is an over-used and somewhat silly term. Sure, with respect to the top 5 or 10 guys, BPA can be determined (though is still subjective).

However, beyond that, BPA is simply whichever guy you like best. Who is BPA between Monahan and Lindholm? Between Lazar and Zykov?

I think you have to define what you want your team to be and then pursue guys that fit. I like that the Flames have determine that HockeyIQ is their thing. Right or wrong, it gives them focus with respect to player acquisition and development.

[The Swedish Flame]

Originally Posted by saillias

Why would the Blackhawks give me hope? If anything seeing that team makes me depressed at just how far away this franchise is from being a threat.

Which is exactly the point, no? Blakchawks didn't become the team they are today overnight, or over one season. Not too long ago they were crap, just like we are right now.

[Enoch Root]

actually, they were crap for a very long time

[Bertuzzied]

hahhaa. The Hawks could have had 2 more cups if Tallon's fax machine worked.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

hahhaa. The Hawks could have had 2 more cups if Tallon's fax machine worked.

That might have been a blessing in disguise. They moved Barker and Versteeg due to cap reasons, and the pieces they got back in Leddy and Stalberg plus other assets have contributed to the current team in one way or the other.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

That might have been a blessing in disguise. They moved Barker and Versteeg due to cap reasons, and the pieces they got back in Leddy and Stalberg plus other assets have contributed to the current team in one way or the other.

Yeah, at the time it looked like a disaster but in retrospect, smart drafting and player acquisitions led the Hawks to come out on top of that.

But this thread is really showing just how difficult, not how likely, it will be to emulate the Hawks' success.

We basically need a sea change in our ability to draft, acquire and develop unproven assets into top contributors to a championship team. The last time the Flames did that was in the mid-1980s, 30 years ago.

[d_phaneuf]

exactly, for every Hawks team that tries to rebuild through the draft there are much much more that have failed in ever becoming contenders