[News] MGM to build 20k seat arena in Las Vegas

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by valo403

Why would a casino want to direct people to a game? Pretty hard for a casino to separate someone from their money when they're spending 3 hours at a hockey game.

It is not really different from any other show in Vegas. Every time someone goes to a Cirque du Soleil they leave the casino and stop losing their money and yet the casinos keep sending people to see them and bring in new shows all the time.

What it comes down to is that a lot of people go to Vegas for the entertainment instead of the gambling. If the casinos can figure out a way to make the NHL a profitable show in Vegas then they would definitely be able to keep a team there indefinitely.

[bizaro86]

Plus, Vegas tourists love things that are Canadian. (Cirque du Soleil, Celine Dion, etc)

[Phil Russell]

Absolute fail. The notion that Canadian tourists can keep an NHL team afloat should have been put to bed by the Phoenix experience. The idea that LV tourists will spend one of their two or three nights on the strip going to an NHL game is crazy. The hope that LV residents will do what they rarely do in numbers, head down to the strip, for any reason nevermind hockey, is dreaming.

[Table 5]

GTA
Quebec City
Seattle
Kansas City
Portland
Houston
Hartford

Cities where I explore putting in a hockey franchise before I even think about Las Vegas.

[InglewoodFan]

Originally Posted by valo403

What's the current arena situation in Vegas besides the Thomas and Mack? Has that ever been cited as a reason not to look at it as a market by either the NHL or NBA? I've always been under the impression that the reasons for being against Vegas go far beyond the arena situation.

There's the Orleans Arena, home of the ECHL Las Vegas Wranglers. Formerly an affiliate of the Flames, I saw Brent Krahn in action there once.

No, it's not a terribly big barn. Maybe 7K? The game I went to the crowd was moderately knowledgeable and judging by the number of jerseys and player familiarity there were a good number of local fans. Not even close to a full house though, but not great hockey.

[bizaro86]

From the post above it sounds like there are at least a few serious hockey fans in Vegas.

There are also a ton of tourists:

For example, Cirque du Soleil does the following shows:

Michael Jackson One: 1804 seats, twice nightly
Love: 2013 seats, twice nightly
Mystere: 1600 seats, twice nightly
Zarkana: 1840 seats, twice nightly
O: 1800 seats, twice nightly
Zumanity: Couldn't find seats, but twice nightly
Ka: 1950 seats, twice nightly


Even assuming Zumanity only has 1500 seats, that would be over 25,000 seats per day. Granted, not all shows play every night, but they play more frequently than an NHL or NBA team would. And they play all year, including summer, which is slow in Vegas for weather reasons.


Also, the average NHL ticket price was recently $57.10. None of the cirque shows have tickets available at that price, they all start higher than that. Granted there are deals/comps available, but guaranteed the average price is above that. If a Vegas NHL team could fill an arena with Boston Bruins type ticket prices, it'd probably be ok.

http://www.hookedonhockeymagazine.co...1-2012-season/

[Stay Golden]

Because of NV gambling laws there is good reason why there are no NBA, MLB, NFL in Las Vegas and the leagues have intentionally avoided Vegas.
Bettman should follow suit and not pursuit an NHL team there.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Because of NV gambling laws there is good reason why there are no NBA, MLB, NFL in Las Vegas and the leagues have intentionally avoided Vegas.
Bettman should follow suit and not pursuit an NHL team there.

What specific laws do they hate? Are they worried players will bet on individual games? They could do that now if they really wanted too.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by Fire

What specific laws do they hate? Are they worried players will bet on individual games? They could do that now if they really wanted too.

Stern, Goodell, Selig have been asked time and time again will you put a team in Vegas and they have repetivly said No just like every commissioner before them.
I'm not sure if you are wanting to debate this or something but i'm not.
If Bettman puts an NHL team in Vegas he should resign.

[Tron_fdc]

Geeez, people think I get black out drunk at Flames games.......this has penitentiary written all over it.

The cool thing about a hockey game there would be the spectacle. There's really no end to the things you could do! Intermission lappy's anyone?

[Ace]

This building has the potential to be the busiest in NA for non-sporting events, a definite tour stop for all performers.

If they can land a sports tenant that would just be a bonus.

[Igottago]

Can't speak for the city as a whole, but on the strip -- can't see the viability. No dedicated home town fanbase, just a transient tourist attraction. I also think it would be a tough place for the players and other people employed in the organization to spent their day to day.

Its kind of a nice idea at first glance but I just dont think the organization would have any of the roots or depth that make sport franchises a lasting success. It would be a novelty.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Can't speak for the city as a whole, but on the strip -- can't see the viability. No dedicated home town fanbase, just a transient tourist attraction. I also think it would be a tough place for the players and other people employed in the organization to spent their day to day.

Because nothing in Vegas has succeeded based on demand from tourists?

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Because nothing in Vegas has succeeded based on demand from tourists?

Are the season ticket holders going to be tourists? Is anyone going to cheer for the home team when they score? Good sports organizations aren't built around tourism, they are built around dedicated fan support.

They need the locals that will go to a game against the Wild on a Tuesday night and buy the merchandise with an intention of continually supporting the team. Not me, who would go there to watch the Flames, stay a few nights to party and gamble, then return home and watch more Flames at the dome.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Are the season ticket holders going to be tourists? Is anyone going to cheer for the home team when they score? Good sports organizations aren't built around tourism, they are built around dedicated fan support.

They need the locals that will go to a game against the Wild on a Tuesday night and buy the merchandie to continually support the team.

Why does the team need season ticket holders to be individual die-hard fans? If they sell higher priced tickets to individuals for every game, isn't that better than selling out on discounted tickets to season ticket holders? Besides, I suspect a pretty significant percentage of Calgary's season tickets are held by corporations. It'd be the same in Vegas, except the corporations would be in the casino business not the oil business.

I'm pretty sure merchandise revenues are shared between all the teams, so a Vegas team would be on equal footing there.


I think its quite likely the current and future NHL owners care more about making money than they do about "building a good sports organization"
Its not like Cirque or the UFC have season ticket holders, and they're doing fine.

[_Q_]

Yeah, I don't get the Canadian tourist angle. So are we hoping that 20,000 Flames, Oilers or Canucks fans make it down to Vegas for 2 games per season each? Will any Flames fans in Vegas at the time ever say "Hey, honey, the Las Vegas Stripper Poles are playing the Nashville Predators tonight, how about we catch that game, even though we don't really care about either team." Are we hoping that Las Vegas becomes the first ever sports franchise that can be successful without a dedicated fanbase?

This is a brutal idea and even worse than putting a team in Phoenix or Atlanta.

[bizaro86]

I think you're more likely to get the tourist from Des Moine to the Vegas vs Nashville game, in the same way I go to a baseball game if I'm in the US. Its something fun to do that I don't have at home. The Canadian tourists would affect the attendance for games vs Canadian teams, obviously, but I bet non-diehards would do it as a night out.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Because nothing in Vegas has succeeded based on demand from tourists?

Can you point out anything that has lasted for multiple years? Shows run for stretches of time and are then replaced by new shows, that's not the case here.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by valo403

Can you point out anything that has lasted for multiple years? Shows run for stretches of time and are then replaced by new shows, that's not the case here.

I'm pretty sure they'll play a different hockey game every time, and not repeat the same game over and over. By analogy, I go to a Yankees or Mets game every time I'm in NYC, but only went to Phantom of the Opera once.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Why does the team need season ticket holders to be individual die-hard fans? If they sell higher priced tickets to individuals for every game, isn't that better than selling out on discounted tickets to season ticket holders? Besides, I suspect a pretty significant percentage of Calgary's season tickets are held by corporations. It'd be the same in Vegas, except the corporations would be in the casino business not the oil business.

I'm pretty sure merchandise revenues are shared between all the teams, so a Vegas team would be on equal footing there.


I think its quite likely the current and future NHL owners care more about making money than they do about "building a good sports organization"
Its not like Cirque or the UFA have season ticket holders, and they're doing fine.

Good sports organizations make money. Bad sports organizations do not.

The comparisons to short run and one off events don't really work.