Oil Spill. As bad as they say?

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Perhaps there needs to be more penalties? Like one day on jail for fotze per day for every ml leaked from his pipeline?

That would be a good way to make Canada a third-world country.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Like one day on jail for fotze per day for every ml leaked from his pipeline?

One day for every ml? Why not just behead him? That seems about as reasonable considering there are 44,000 ml in a barrel of oil...

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Reaper

One day for every ml? Why not just behead him? That seems about as reasonable considering there are 44,000 ml in a barrel of oil...

I was joking. Perhaps a mom joke would've been better

[carom]

Agreed, I think the trees are brown because they are dying, not from oil. I have worked on 30+ pipeline spill remediation jobs in Alberta and never seen one that put oil on treetops.

I work in the environmental consulting industry. Not this past year, but the previous two winters I spent a good portion of my winter working up in that area doing remediation/reclamation. Unfortunately this does not surprise me or really hit me as being that unusual. I have worked on plenty of sites up there with what I would estimate to be astronomical environmental liabilities attached to them. I think part of the problem is there is so much focus on Northeast Alberta that the Northwest has been overlooked or forgotten about. It would be bad enough that it is an old field(s), but when you consider the ground conditions and the remoteness it takes it up a whole level. I would guess that a lot of the old lines up there (especially to injection wells) are just Swiss cheese. I would guess very little will be able to be done about cleaning up the mess until next winter.

On a related note, it's going to be interesting to see how it goes for the companies taking facilities off of the Hay-Zama complex and meeting the 2017 deadline.

It's all a real shame too because it is a really beautiful place, in the summer.

Also I must say Minnie, I have never had any problems in Asumption (or Chateh) or anyone from there. They have always been really nice to me, that being said I don't think I would want to spend much time there after dark.

Now I will never be able to come back to Calgary and work.

[carom]

I would guess that putting in an ice road and maintaining it will be in the millions of dollars. Also, not a lot of things that you can do for in situ salinity and metals contamination. The oil will take care of it self.

[chemgear]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...anup-zama.html

Apache refused a request by CBC News to see the pipeline from which the spill originated.

Company officials say they don't know how long it will take to complete their cleanup.

The Dene Tha' First Nation said Thursday in a news release that a Dene Tha' field technician who visited the site on June 6 saw that all plants and trees affected by the spill had died, and that the contamination had saturated the muskeg in the area.

It said a field technician advised Thursday that fluid is still being released from the pipe, but is now contained within in a storage pit that is pumped out into holding tanks.

The First Nation says the amount of dead vegetation in the area clearly visible from a helicopter may indicate the spill had been occurring for a long period of time.

[carom]

Originally Posted by chemgear

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...anup-zama.html

Apache refused a request by CBC News to see the pipeline from which the spill originated.

Company officials say they don't know how long it will take to complete their cleanup.

The Dene Tha' First Nation said Thursday in a news release that a Dene Tha' field technician who visited the site on June 6 saw that all plants and trees affected by the spill had died, and that the contamination had saturated the muskeg in the area.

It said a field technician advised Thursday that fluid is still being released from the pipe, but is now contained within in a storage pit that is pumped out into holding tanks.

The First Nation says the amount of dead vegetation in the area clearly visible from a helicopter may indicate the spill had been occurring for a long period of time.

I have worked with the Dene "field techs" before and I would not put too much stock into what they have to say. They know the area and the facilities very well but their technical knowledge; especially when it comes to environmental matters, is a bit lacking IMO.

Of course the ground is saturated with contamination. Muskeg is by defination saturated. The contamination you can see (i.e. hydrocarbons) is less dense than water and will sit on top of the water table. You're not going to be able to visually see the salinity and metals contamination, just the result of it.

Of course fluid is coming out of the line still. A spill that big in extent likely has multiple holes in the line. The water in the 'skeg is probably getting into the line from the other holes and spilling out in the bell hole, what are you going to do, drain the entire region?

What I believe is most troublesome of the information released today is that the line is only 5 years old (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle12536856/).

I would guess that most of the infrastructure in this area is decades older than that.

[Stay Golden]

has the cause been determined yet. Weld, seal, valve, or burst?

[Peanut]

I have the answer - abandon all pipelines and rail it out!!

Except rail always goes through major towns and past important water bodies and crashes a lot. Oops.

[blankall]

Are there any pics of this? There are all sorst of articles saying this is one of the worst ecological disasters in North American history. "50 football fields" where all life is dead.

Seems strange we wouldn't have a fly by from a helicopter showing the damage.

[carom]

[Flacker]

Stupid question time.

What is this pipelines purpose?

Is this salty water a by-product separated from the crude, and is being transported for further processing/disposal?

The highly saline water is a great deal worse for the environment than leaking crude, and considerably harder to contain.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Flacker

Stupid question time.

What is this pipelines purpose?

Is this salty water a by-product separated from the crude, and is being transported for further processing/disposal?

The highly saline water is a great deal worse for the environment than leaking crude, and considerably harder to contain.

After you have produced your oil you dewater and deoil your waste stream as much as possible and then put it into a disposal well that is geologically isolated from any water supplys. In an effort to conserve water as much of the water is reused as possible so the disposal streams are very high chloride (salinity) content.

[ignite09]

Another stupid question, are there any government regulations on how old pipes have to be before being replaced? Is this more any issue of pipes that should already have been replaced?

[flylock shox]

I don't know if it's increased media reporting, or just a matter of coincidence, but it seems there's been a shockingly large number of reported pipeline leaks since the Northern Gateway and Keystone debates began.

Keystone I'm not too interested in, but this type of thing will undoubtedly firm up opposition to Northern Gateway in BC. Rightly too. It will be interesting to see how BC's government handles that negotiation going forward.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by ignite09

Another stupid question, are there any government regulations on how old pipes have to be before being replaced? Is this more any issue of pipes that should already have been replaced?

Pipelines need integrity monitoring programs as per ERCB directive 77.

This means there is a documented procedure that the company has to follow. Its requirements are outlined in the CSA (Canadian Standards Association) pipeline code which is developed by a combination of industry and regulatory experts.

Generally the plan consists of a corrosion monitoring program including pigging, spill monitoring and prevention, clean up plans if their are spills. You would base replacement on your pigging results. They should show a corrosion trends which allow you to esitmate the lifespan of the pipes.

Someone earlier in the thread said this was flexpipe which is a plastic pipe product which generally isnt subject to corrosion and should have a 25 year lifespan.

Edit: not necessarily flexpipe which is a specific brand. Apache is saying it was a "premium flex line that was coated inside and out”.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle12536856/

Since it isnt that old I wonder if it was a material compatibility issue as some of these plastic pipe products are not designed for trace hydrocarbons because they weaken the plastic. Its likely a material compatibility issue or an installation issue.

[Bootsy]

Originally Posted by GGG

Pipelines need integrity monitoring programs as per ERCB directive 77.

This means there is a documented procedure that the company has to follow. Its requirements are outlined in the CSA (Canadian Standards Association) pipeline code which is developed by a combination of industry and regulatory experts.

Generally the plan consists of a corrosion monitoring program including pigging, spill monitoring and prevention, clean up plans if their are spills. You would base replacement on your pigging results. They should show a corrosion trends which allow you to esitmate the lifespan of the pipes.

Someone earlier in the thread said this was flexpipe which is a plastic pipe product which generally isnt subject to corrosion and should have a 25 year lifespan.

Edit: not necessarily flexpipe which is a specific brand. Apache is saying it was a "premium flex line that was coated inside and out”.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle12536856/

Since it isnt that old I wonder if it was a material compatibility issue as some of these plastic pipe products are not designed for trace hydrocarbons because they weaken the plastic. Its likely a material compatibility issue or an installation issue.

In the last little while there has been a higher number of failures with these types of lines (flexpipe, fiberspar etc..) when it comes to water injection. The failures in most cases are caused by a combination of construction damage aggravated by high pressure and the cycle service the pumps are ran (off/on rather than steady flow) .
In fairness to the ERCB they have been requesting audits on fiberglass lines that are used on water injection, where they want producers to pressure test their lines, as well as providing construction records and operational procedures. We had 3 of these specific lines tested last year. Its unfortunate this one was caught before hand.

The problem with these lines is in a lot of cases when companies put them in 5-10 years ago they were using traditional pipe-lining companies who are used to steel pipes to install them with little experience with fiberglass lines and the hazards involved.

[chemgear]

Another:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...sate-leak.html

In a release made Saturday, the company says it is not yet known what caused the leak, and that no estimate of the volume of liquid released is available.

Plains Midstream has notified the ERCB and local authorities about the leak, and says response personel is en route.

[Violator]

Originally Posted by Bootsy

In the last little while there has been a higher number of failures with these types of lines (flexpipe, fiberspar etc..) when it comes to water injection. The failures in most cases are caused by a combination of construction damage aggravated by high pressure and the cycle service the pumps are ran (off/on rather than steady flow) .
In fairness to the ERCB they have been requesting audits on fiberglass lines that are used on water injection, where they want producers to pressure test their lines, as well as providing construction records and operational procedures. We had 3 of these specific lines tested last year. Its unfortunate this one was caught before hand.

The problem with these lines is in a lot of cases when companies put them in 5-10 years ago they were using traditional pipe-lining companies who are used to steel pipes to install them with little experience with fiberglass lines and the hazards involved.

I worked for a company doing fiberglass piping most if if no all the piping and flanges were pressure tested before being shipped to the client.The big problem with fiberglass is that its easy to damage if not handled properly and bruises with the slightest impact improper bonding is always an issue as well.

[Bootsy]

Originally Posted by Violator

I worked for a company doing fiberglass piping most if if no all the piping and flanges were pressure tested before being shipped to the client.The big problem with fiberglass is that its easy to damage if not handled properly and bruises with the slightest impact improper bonding is always an issue as well.

I guess I should have been more clear when I say construction I'm meaning installing the pipelines and constructing the headers (pipeliners). I think industry is getting better at it now but before a lot of these lines were getting installed by crew's that only dealt with steel in the past and weren't properly trained in installing fiberglass.
I have no doubt they are fine heading out of the shop.