TSN's Off Season Game Plan for the Flames

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

What is it with the massive hard-on for Bozak?


When force-fed 1st line minutes on a playoff team, he managed a 20 goal pace for half a season. That's his career-best performance.

He's never scored more than 18 goals.

He's 27.

"Boy, can't wait to see him locked up for 5 years at $5m+ per season."

Is there another 6 ft + centre in our system who can step up in the next couple seasons and play in the top six? This team is too small up front. And every trade isn't about hitting a home run. And last I checked, Getzlaf and Eric Staal aren't available.

Of course, if the goal is simply to tank, the Flames don't have to plug any holes. But I don't think the plan is to tank.

[Erick Estrada]

I agree with a lot of what he says in that they really shouldn't be looking for high priced veteran players and should be looking at guys at in the age group of Bozak or Raymond (as long as they aren't overpaying for these guys). As for Mike Smith I think he's going to get a lot more than the $4 million so unless it's one of those long term deals I can't see his cap hit being only $4 million. That said I don't believe the Flames will be looking for goaltending help at least this offseason as it looks like they are going to use 2013/2014 to find out if the two of their european prospects are the real deal.

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

The Flames have Brodie, Baertschi, Backlund..... and..... several guys that those other teams have in similar amounts.

Really? That seems like a massive generalization of a prospect pool to me. I have been seeing it trotted out increasingly around here in Flames prospect pool doomsday predictions though. Kinda like Oilers fans telling us they have 9 Giordano's.

It's just a silly line of thinking.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Rhettzky

Really? That seems like a massive generalization of a prospect pool to me. I have been seeing it trotted out increasingly around here in Flames prospect pool doomsday predictions though. Kinda like Oilers fans telling us they have 9 Giordano's.

It's just a silly line of thinking.

Okay, name one NHL franchise that doesn't have five prospects of the caliber of Rheinhart, Wotherspoon, Granlund, Agostino, and Broissot.

By NHL standards, there is nothing special about the Flames prospect pool. It's better than the Flames prospect pool of four years ago, but that's not saying much. Fan optimism means nothing.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I agree with a lot of what he says in that they really shouldn't be looking for high priced veteran players and should be looking at guys at in the age group of Bozak or Raymond (as long as they aren't overpaying for these guys). As for Mike Smith I think he's going to get a lot more than the $4 million so unless it's one of those long term deals I can't see his cap hit being only $4 million. That said I don't believe the Flames will be looking for goaltending help at least this offseason as it looks like they are going to use 2013/2014 to find out if the two of their european prospects are the real deal.

It really depends on which way management is leaning. If their mandate really is to make the playoffs, I just can't see them going with a 33 year old journeyman and a complete unknown in net. The Flames will have more than enough money to throw at Smith to sign him if they want. I personally don't think they should, but it wouldn't surprise me at all.

[Husky]

I have no issue the Flames overpaying for say 3-4 years for a guy like Bryan Bickell. Give him a Prust type contract. Hes big, adds jam, still young and has a bit of offense to him. Plus he comes from a winning organization.

[kyuss275]

Not a bad article. Left out Berra and Ramo, but it might be because they think they have no future.

As for Bozak, i would not want him, but he would be the best center on the flames for the next 2 years.

The problem is we have no proof that the flames are doing a rebuild. It's what i want to see, but ownership might see it differently. I will not be surprised if the flames offer big money and try and get Horton and Bozak. Luckily they will probably be turned down.

[killer_carlson]

Bozak = Stajan

Overrated player who gets a lot of extra press because he plays in Toronto.

No Thanks.

[Ashasx]

I know I say this in every thread, but we shouldn't be acquiring any more goaltenders.

We've already spent assets on the ones we have. Let's give them a chance before blowing what we gave up.

There's no goaltender in the league that would make us a playoff team next season.

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Okay, name one NHL franchise that doesn't have five prospects of the caliber of Rheinhart, Wotherspoon, Granlund, Agostino, and Broissot.

By NHL standards, there is nothing special about the Flames prospect pool. It's better than the Flames prospect pool of four years ago, but that's not saying much. Fan optimism means nothing.

It's not about fan optimism. They are prospects, all of them project differently and all of them are question marks. Acting like you know how any of them will end up in the long run is ridiculous. To say "Every NHL franchise has a Johnny Gaudreau." is such an odd statement to make. I think steering clear of these generalizations with respect to prospect pools is a good idea.

[dammage79]

Speaking about the Goaltending. I really do not think they are going out to sign one this season. I really do think they are going to try their luck with Ramo and Berra. With MacDonald sitting there waiting to fill in.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Rhettzky

It's not about fan optimism. They are prospects, all of them project differently and all of them are question marks. Acting like you know how any of them will end up in the long run is ridiculous. To say "Every NHL franchise has a Johnny Gaudreau." is such an odd statement to make. I think steering clear of these generalizations with respect to prospect pools is a good idea.

He never said Johnny Gaudreau. He mentioned Granlund, Broissot, Agostino, ect. He was not wrong, every other NHL prospect pool has these players.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Is there another 6 ft + centre in our system who can step up in the next couple seasons and play in the top six? This team is too small up front. And every trade isn't about hitting a home run. And last I checked, Getzlaf and Eric Staal aren't available.

This would be a good point if Bozak was markedly better than Backlund or Stajan, but I don't think that's the case. I'd say all 3 are at a similar level.

Bringing in Bozak does little more than take away a depth spot from a kid like Horak or Reinhart. Both of whom could very quickly develop into mediocre, middle-6, sub-20-goal-scoring players like Bozak.

Nope, not every move needs to be a home run. Heck, you don't even want to swing at every pitch. And Bozak on a big contract is a baaaad pitch. Just take is as a 'ball', and wait for the next one.

[ricardodw]

In the UFA market who the heck is going to be raising the bidding against the Flames?

Who will offer Horton, Bozek, Iginla, Clarkson more than 3-4M / year?

Who is going to break the bank to sign Regehr?


Please don't just say LA and Pits and Boston. Provide an analysis of how the teams bidding against the Flames work these UFA's in along with the guys they already have signed.

This is not June 2012 with a 70M cap this year there is a cap of 64M. There are a lot of players who big contract extensions signed in 2012 come into effect. The oilers are spending an extra 8.5 M just to hang onto their core guys..... Eberle, Hall and Smid. They are all ready spending the same cap as they did in 2012/13 and need to add 6-8 players to fill in their lineup replacing Gagner, whitney in the process.


This is possibly the worst time to become a UFA since 2004 and the best for a team with cap space that it is willing to spend.

If Kipper retires as indicated the Flames have 24.3M in cap space to fill in 5 spots....

They have significant RFA's Brodie and Backlund to sign the rest for a goalie (berra and/or Rammo) and UFA's --- Horton Clarkson, Bickell and Regehr would change the feel and direction of the team.

It is hard to emphasis how big of a move it was getting out from under Bouwmeester's contract and Iginla's.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Rhettzky

It's not about fan optimism. They are prospects, all of them project differently and all of them are question marks. Acting like you know how any of them will end up in the long run is ridiculous. To say "Every NHL franchise has a Johnny Gaudreau." is such an odd statement to make. I think steering clear of these generalizations with respect to prospect pools is a good idea.

Of course not every team has a Johnny Gaudreau. However, most teams have several prospects that could be top 2 line players but have some flaws that might prevent them from becoming that. We have guys like Agostino, Granlund, Jankowski, and Gaudreau that fall in that group, just like everyone else. I like Gaudreau quite a bit, but even if he sticks in the NHL, he's more of a 2nd line player (Even Briere and Cammalleri have primarily been used as 2nd liners with #1 PP ice time)

So all in all, the Flames have 1 player that is a 1st/2nd line wing (Baertschi), a possible 2nd line wing (Gaudreau), and a 2nd/3rd line Center in Backlund, with everyone else in the prospect pool being at least 2 years away from being possible NHL players or are players that have limited upside (3rd/4th liners).

That is as paper thin of a prospect pool/NHL line up as you can probably get in the modern Cap era.

Until the Flames have 10 forwards with Baertschi/Gaudreau's potential, we are not going to be solid. Realistically, we need to be closer to 15 prospects that have potential in order to become a contender as we will be able to take the best of the bunch and build around them, and deal from the depth of quality to get pieces that are necessary to put the finishing touches on it (see Simmonds + Schenn for Richards trade as an example)

This team is 3-5 years away from that. It's going to be a while.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

In the UFA market who the heck is going to be raising the bidding against the Flames?

Who will offer Horton, Bozek, Iginla, Clarkson more than 3-4M / year?

Who is going to break the bank to sign Regehr?


Please don't just say LA and Pits and Boston. Provide an analysis of how the teams bidding against the Flames work these UFA's in along with the guys they already have signed.

This is not June 2012 with a 70M cap this year there is a cap of 64M. There are a lot of players who big contract extensions signed in 2012 come into effect. The oilers are spending an extra 8.5 M just to hang onto their core guys..... Eberle, Hall and Smid. They are all ready spending the same cap as they did in 2012/13 and need to add 6-8 players to fill in their lineup replacing Gagner, whitney in the process.


This is possibly the worst time to become a UFA since 2004 and the best for a team with cap space that it is willing to spend.

If Kipper retires as indicated the Flames have 24.3M in cap space to fill in 5 spots....

They have significant RFA's Brodie and Backlund to sign the rest for a goalie (berra and/or Rammo) and UFA's --- Horton Clarkson, Bickell and Regehr would change the feel and direction of the team.

It is hard to emphasis how big of a move it was getting out from under Bouwmeester's contract and Iginla's.

Not saying you are wrong that the flames could out bid a lot of teams, but that is not the way to go. Horton or Bozak would take $5 million a year plus term, not worth it. Clarkson will get his money and term also.

As for Iggy he is not coming back. He made it pretty clear in his fairwell press conference when he said that even if he wins a cup this year he wants to chase cups after that. Also he sold his house within a month after leaving. If Iggy came back just for the money i would lose respect for him.

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

He never said Johnny Gaudreau. He mentioned Granlund, Broissot, Agostino, ect. He was not wrong, every other NHL prospect pool has these players.

Well that's where we disagree. I won't make definitive statements about the projection of prospects like this. I'm not disagreeing that the Flames prospect pool is weak and lacking top end talent, just saying that generalizing prospects in such a way is ridiculously simplified. It also implies that you can not only see the future of all the 18-20 year old Flames prospects, but that you have seen it as well for the other 29 teams and the 1,500 players in their prospect pools.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Not a bad article. Left out Berra and Ramo, but it might be because they think they have no future.

As for Bozak, i would not want him, but he would be the best center on the flames for the next 2 years.

The problem is we have no proof that the flames are doing a rebuild. It's what i want to see, but ownership might see it differently. I will not be surprised if the flames offer big money and try and get Horton and Bozak. Luckily they will probably be turned down.

Some pretty significant moves before the last trade deadline. Not sure what more you'd want to see?

[Rubicant]

Originally Posted by the2bears

Some pretty significant moves before the last trade deadline. Not sure what more you'd want to see?

Those are definitely indicative of a rebuild, but I must admit I am waiting to see what management does (or more importantly doesn't do) this summer before I really believe that they are rebuilding.

I don't like hearing that our GM has marching orders to make the playoffs next season, but will let (in)actions speak louder than what could potentially be ownership merely conveying that they don't want a culture of complacency to set in during the rebuild.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by cowtown75

If they take Gauthier as their second pick, I will fricken loose it ! what a waste and if that happens, they need to get rid of the current management- and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. Outside of the top pick, Rychel and Zykov better be involved.

Don't get too fixated on particular players with our later picks. Plenty of attractive talent besides Rychel and Zykov. Not sure I see why drafting Gauthier should be considered a fire everyone mistake. He's not my favourite prospect but he does give us something we don't have a lot of (size at centre).