Status of Penguins

[TurdFerguson]

Further to my above comment, my feeling is that it is really easy to spot things that are glaringly wrong and say they are wrong after the fact (like this recent PP stat) but it is a lot harder to define what is right or acceptable before hand. If you can't clearly define the desired result then you really can't test towards it.

[JiriHrdina]

That's a good question Turd.
I think we are all seeking an appropriate combination of randomness while still seeing the "good teams" and good players perform well

This year I think the top scorers are all pretty good player - so I don't have much issue there.

I think the issue is more around some teams with poor rated players being high in the standings while deep teams with high rated players are lower.

I think understanding how to piece a team together should still be part of the game though. For instance, clearly for the last 2 years I've completed missed the boat in terms of understanding how to generate shots. To have the same problems in back to back seasons shows I'm not doing a good job of creating a roster of the right combo of players. That's on me.

But I'd like to see less perceived randomness.

My initial thought is to turn off coaching and Morale, do some testing and see what we get.

[TurdFerguson]

I'd tend to agree with that as a starting point.

I don't know how we get to it but I’d like to see some definition of what is acceptable (or what, specifically, we are trying to change) for the league before the results of tweaking sliders comes out (maybe this isn't achievable on mass, so a smaller group might make more sense). Inevitably, changing the dynamics of the SIM are going to hurt some teams and help others and I just don’t want to see a bunch of bitching and finger pointing at the end of this because someone liked different rules set better etc. Hopefully that wouldn't be an issue with this group though.

anyway...lots of time in the off-season to tackle this.

[Knut]

Admittedly I was going to post something very similar to Goffie (GET OUT OF MY BRAIN)...

However, if we are looking at changing the settings up I will give things another go.

I found it frustrating to make deals this year. I would build up and start losing, sell off and start winning. I was 2nd in the league when i added Mike Ryder for 2nd line scoring.... I proceeded to drop about 13 of 15 games and nothing i could do would fix it. Very frustrating.

I got off to a hot start with Ennis, McArthur and Dubinsky all top 5 in league scoring... i had no depth and tried to add players around them that should be putting up big points. I could have not made a deal after the first month and likely would have ended up making the playoffs. Instead I actually build myself a veteran laden playoff team and i miss out.

[Da_Chief]

Ennis, McArthur and Dubinky should've never been in top 5 scoring, they gave you false hope.

[Knut]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Ennis, McArthur and Dubinky should've never been in top 5 scoring, they gave you false hope.

Which is why i built up a team around them. I was not intending on being very good this season. They started off on fire and only slowed down when I added peices around them.

That is the bothersome part to me. Logic tells me that i should be adding guys to my roster to increase my chance to compete, however the SIM is telling me to not make any moves at all and do well due to overperformance.

That right there is the issue. The SIM is not that logical.

[flambers]

SIM will always have some bugs... .......It use to be worse for sure.

As to why top seeds get knocked out of the playoffs.... not sure but It has always happend with CPHL

However that tends to happen in the NHL as well... (i.e. Kings were 16th place team who won the cup).

[nickerjones]

However that tends to happen in the NHL as well... (i.e. Kings were 16th place team who won the cup).[/QUOTE]

So does top players not being in the scoring lead... One that came to mind was when Dave mentioned Ovie. He is a great player but where has he been the last couple years of the NHL? He has been horrible. As far as teams go the NYR tried to load up on superstars in the NHL and they aren't winning. I don't really see a problem with the sim as its supposed to promote randomness and it does. If there was a recipe to win the league year after year them what would be the fun of even playing? That's my opinion anyway.

[flambers]

Remember, the SIM is a program. Newer version have had less lower rated players in the scoring race... but it still happens

(happened last 10 years for sure).

Not sure this will ever be eliminated but we can hope...

As others have stated, we can try other variants for sure..

[Goffie]

Originally Posted by nickerjones

However that tends to happen in the NHL as well... (i.e. Kings were 16th place team who won the cup).

So does top players not being in the scoring lead... One that came to mind was when Dave mentioned Ovie. He is a great player but where has he been the last couple years of the NHL? He has been horrible. As far as teams go the NYR tried to load up on superstars in the NHL and they aren't winning. I don't really see a problem with the sim as its supposed to promote randomness and it does. If there was a recipe to win the league year after year them what would be the fun of even playing? That's my opinion anyway.[/QUOTE]


Have you even watched the NHL this year? Ovie could win the rocket and the hart trophies.

Upsets are one thing randomness is another. Why is the sim suppose to create randomness? What is the point of that? If everything is random how are you supposed to build a team? There would be no structure or basis to build towards. There should be upsets and surprises. But teams with KHL calibre rosters shouldn't be dominating.

CPHL seems to be the only league where upsets are the norm. There has to be a balance somewhere in which weaker teams are capable of winning but not expected too.

[MJK]

There is some good discussion but I do think we are getting away from our goal here which is to make the CPHL a little more consistent especially when compared to other sim leagues who don't seem to experience the same randomness...simply the good teams with better results.

The objectives are how we will reach our goal which comes with doing some testing!

[JiriHrdina]

To be clear - randomness is a problem for a lot of leagues using this sim. We aren't the only ones which is why the creator tried to make a different engine (2.1).

Some leagues have figured out a better balance - but many have not.

I think we have some good suggestions that we will trial and see if we can improve things as well.

The only thing I'll add is that many teams often think they are going to have success, most in fact - so some GMs are going to be disappointed regardless of what we do. The key is some sort of alignment though between overall lineup strength and results.

[TurdFerguson]

One thing is guaranteed - things can only get better for Dallas!

[mbeauchamp76]

I guess I should chime in here since I have been the extreme benefactor of the SIM, well mostly in the regular season. My team is not bad and would probably have been a playoff team 9 out of 10 times. Am I shocked that I led the league again, yes. Is their higher rated teams on paper, yes. Do I have the best goalie in the league, yes. I look at the NHL and countless times teams with slightly above average players and a superb goalie have made it far. On the other hand the SIM seems to punish teams who have too many superstars, everyone wants the puck it seems, destroying the chemistry. In the NHL it would be interesting to see how an All-Star team would fair against the Stanley Cup champions or any other NHL team for that matter. This is easy for me to say but instead of complaining about the SIM maybe we work with the SIM. How I did last year shouldn't have had any bearing on how I did this year as the team was very different. One thing I found though once you get off to a quick start and build up the morale players actually increase their ratings making the team even better and harder to beat. Does this not happen in real life though. Also, I have been the beneficiary of an easier schedule than some teams with no real string of games together while other teams were getting exhausted. Same as last year. I just don't think that playing around with the SIM to benefit certain teams at the expense of other teams maybe the right thing. The SIM should be played the way it is meant to be played, though it doesn't hurt to try. I remember someone had used an NHL EA sports game to simulate the playoffs but that may have been in the old sim. Anyway, I would go with anything us as the league decides. I feel bad for Goffie, because I really thought his team was one of the elite teams.

[nickerjones]

Originally Posted by Goffie

Have you even watched the NHL this year? Ovie could win the rocket and the hart trophies.

I know you're upset but Im pretty sure you're intelligent enough to put 2 and 2 together and realize I meant the couple of seasons before this one. You know when he had 38 and 32 goals instead of 65 , 56, and 50 that he had the 3 yrs prior to that. Needless to say even in 2011 when he had 38 goals and 80 something points he just didnt seem like the dominant player of old.

[Goffie]

I know that I am taking a lot of things here quite literal when people are just trying to make example. However my point is that there should be a way to balance the teams with the best depth, top players as well as add some unpredictability.
I know that in the NHL the teams with the best players don't always win. But for the most part the teams with the best players and top depth are the top NHL teams. Look at this years NHL for example. The Penguins added stars to an already stacked roster and they look pretty well unbeatable, the Hawks have great depth and star power up front and on the blue line and they are a class team. There are always teams with weaker rosters who overachieve as well, look at the Sens, they had their 3 best out almost all year and are in the mix. However there are not too many surprises. The Rangers thinned out their depth completely and paid for it. They added more depth and they are winning again. So I think depth is just important as star power. But the teams with a mix of both should be solid teams in the sim like they are in the NHL.

As for the Isles, I feel for Mike because I would ride out the sim luck as well if my team was unstoppable. But to argue that you should be a playoff team 9/10 is crazy. Your goaltending and defense is great but you were one of the highest scoring teams in the league with one of the worst forward corps with one great forward in Nash a solid 2nd liner in Vrbata and a couple decent 3rd liners. I wont argue the playoff spot for that lineup to score 283 goals is madness.

I am not saying change the sim to benefit some while others struggle. I am saying make adjustments so that guys who put time and effort into building great teams are rewarded. I know for a fact that I am not the only one to think like this as 7 or 8 veteran GM's who I spoke too are also on board to see what we can do to make certain things better and more realistic. What is the point to build depth and strong rosters when guys who have barely played an NHL game the last 2 years can come in and do just as good job.

This is not a CPHL issue but a SIM issue and as the CPHL is the best league in the world IMO I would like to see it take steps to stay that way.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Swayze11

Another weird thing I never understood was morale. It isn't as dynamic as I would have hoped (ie: Player X gets traded to a contender, his morale should increase... instead it decreases).

So every single time you make a trade, the player you are acquiring takes a morale hit, and so does your team, therefore the teams that don't make many trades benefit.

Is there any way to turn off or at the very least decrease morale's impact on the sim?

Morale seems to be directly tied to success and winning streaks.

My Habs were in the low 40's (actually dipped as low as 38) for much of the season. When I went on that big winning streak at the end of the season, it topped out at 58 I believe. After the first few wins I seemed to be gaining about 2 pts per game.

And I made no significant trades towards the end. So didn't really matter if I traded out a low Morale guy and brought in a high one

[Cheese]

^^^My morale was in the 20s for the first few months. At the end of the regular season it was in the 80s and 90s yet I was swept in 5 games in the playoffs by a team with lower morale.....or is that morals?

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Cheese

^^^My morale was in the 20s for the first few months. At the end of the regular season it was in the 80s and 90s yet I was swept in 5 games in the playoffs by a team with lower morale.....or is that morals?

Well morale is only one stat. By itself a high morale doesn't ensure any success I would imagine.

All I'm saying is that it seems to really gain ground during streaks. Which makes sense for your story as I believe you had the longest streak in the league.

[Daradon]

Probably just works out as a small decimal multiplier. Very small, maybe even the hundreths.