TSN coaches poll for major NHL awards

[moon]

Originally Posted by jeffman

I think that Ovie is more valuable to his team than crosby is to pens or toews to black hawks. Take sid out of penguins and you still have malkin,iggy,neal, morrow. Take Toews out of chicago you get hossa, kane sharp, saad. If you take away all of ovechkins recent production they are competing with us for the 1st overall

Backstrom and Ribeiro are having as good offensive seasons as Kane and Hossa. Brouwer, Ward, Johansen are decent role players in line with the Chicago guys you listed.

Pittsburgh certainly has a little better top end guys in Malkin and Neal but probably reflected in the much, much better record that they have compared to the Capitals. If you take away Sid's production from the Pens they are at best middle of the pack in the East not the best team in league and favorite for the Cup.

The Capitals are still fighting for a play-off spot in the East while Crosby, Toews, Kane have lead their teams to first place and early clinches. If we don't care about how a team does Stamkos has been more impressive this year as well and should be higher on the MVP list.

[AR_Six]

Why is the leading scorer among defensemen now considered the prohibitive favourite for the Norris? Subban, as a defenseman, isn't anywhere close to Suter or Chara.

[FanIn80]

Hart: Ovechkin
Calder: Gallagher
Vezina: Niemi
Norris: Subban
Selke: Bergeron
Jack Adams: Therrien

Couple of things:

• This is the first time in a very long time that I've been more interested in the Eastern Conference than the Western.
• Crosby may be the points leader, but he has a much deeper supporting cast. The deeper your team is, the more worn out the opposing defenders are. I'd also argue that if Crosby was out for the whole season, they'd still be one of the favourites to win the Cup. Take Ovechkin out of Washington, and they're one of the favourites for the first overall pick. Since the award is for the player who is "most valuable to his team," and not the "best player in the league," Ovechkin should win his second Hart.
• Subban has been an absolute monster this season. Don't get me wrong, I love the fact that Suter is proving he can carry the mail sans Webber (which can't be said the other way), but no other D controls the back end the way Subban has this season. Even more impressive coming off a holdout, which is not usually the case due to the added pressure of living up to the hype generated by holding out.
• Therrien is a no-brainer. What's the biggest thing that has changed for the Habs between last season's woes and this season's highs? Michel Therrien. Their winning percentage last season was 0.38, this year it's 0.62. When you come in as head coach in the offseason, and take your new team from dead last in the East to the #2 seed going into the playoffs, with essentially the same roster, I think your name deserves to be on a trophy.
• To me, the Calder is between Gallagher and Saad. I give the nod to Gallagher though, since he has the same amount of points as Saad, but in less games and playing almost three minutes less per night. Huberdeau has the most points amongst rookies, but it's only three more than Gallagher/Saad, and his +/- is atrocious. I know +/- is misleading, but Huberdeau is -13 while his linemates are -2 and -8 respectively and they each have significantly less points. As for Brodin, it's already a rarity for a D to get the Calder; he hasn't been good enough to both overcome that and outshine the other candidates.
• The Vezina is all about stats, and Niemi seems to have the best combination in that regard.
• The Selke is typically my least favourite award. It should go to the best DEFENSIVE forward (which is something that would actually interest me), but it always seems to go to the best OFFENSIVE-DEFENSIVE forward. This year, that's been Bergeron.

[Poe969]

Hanowski for the Calder. The rest don't matter.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by moon

Ovechkin has 10 less points playing in 6 more games, his team has 14 less points playing in perhaps the worst division in NHL history, he is still brutal defensively, still selfish and yet he is the MVP over Crosby?

If any writer/Gm/Coach (whoever votes for these awards at end of the season) votes for Ovechkin over Crosby for MVP they should be fired from their position and banned from hockey for at least 5 years.

Washington is struggling for a play-off spot if not for being in the pathetic SE. There are many more deserving players than AO. Just because he has started scoring goals again he isn't close to the MVP.

Washington got off to a horrible start, but Ovechkin is now carrying the team on his back.

Meanwhile, Crosby is missing a big part of the season, and his team is continuing to win without him.

Pitts own division with Philly, NJ, and the NYR all playing well below expectations isn't exactly an ultra competive one either. The NYI are the second best team in that division.

Crosby's team is playing just as well without him. Crosby may be the better player, but that is not what the Hart trophy is for. Washington without Ovechkin is much much much worse off than Pitts without Crosby. This is a far better test of who deserves the Hart.

[M*A*S*H 4077]

Bobrovsky for the Hart? Only if the Blue Jackets make it? I would argue that no one is more valuable to their team's success than Bobrovsky this season

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by AR_Six

Why is the leading scorer among defensemen now considered the prohibitive favourite for the Norris? Subban, as a defenseman, isn't anywhere close to Suter or Chara.

It's nothing new. Paul Coffey won the award 3 times.

[moon]

Originally Posted by blankall

Washington got off to a horrible start, but Ovechkin is now carrying the team on his back.

Meanwhile, Crosby is missing a big part of the season, and his team is continuing to win without him.

Pitts own division with Philly, NJ, and the NYR all playing well below expectations isn't exactly an ultra competive one either. The NYI are the second best team in that division.

Crosby's team is playing just as well without him. Crosby may be the better player, but that is not what the Hart trophy is for. Washington without Ovechkin is much much much worse off than Pitts without Crosby. This is a far better test of who deserves the Hart.

Crosby carried the team on his back for the start of the season and to a much better record than anything Ovechkin has done. Malkin hasn't played as well as he normally has, Fleury has been his inconsistent self and they had injuries before Crosby went down. The Penguins haven't played as well without Crosby in the line-up as with him either.

Basically you are saying that if you are on a good team you can't win. Crosby has been much, much better than Ovechkin, as valuable if not more valuable to his team than him, contributed to a top team in the league not one struggling to make it in and contributes in all areas of the team not just one.

If Crosby can't win because of some BS notion that his team is too good despite him clearly being the better and more valuable player then why not a guy like Stamkos who has been better than AO and on a team that would be god awful without him? Getzlaf has been better and Anaheim would be a mess without him (but I guess they are too good a team).

Ovechkin is borderline top 5 MVP candidate (likely 8-10th) and not remotely close to Crosby even with his injury.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

It's nothing new. Paul Coffey won the award 3 times.

When everyone knows Kevin Lowe should have won it six times.

[H2SO4(aq)]

Maybe in retrospect Feaster should have tried to offer sheet Subban instead of ROR...

[blankall]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

Maybe in retrospect Feaster should have tried to offer sheet Subban instead of ROR...

They would have matched...Subban would be a lot richer now though.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by AR_Six

Hart: Crosby (I would be okay with Ovechkin or Stamkos though depending on who wins the Rocket)

Stamkos isn't even the best player on his team this year.

If you want to go with Hart as best player, only Crosby deserves it. If you want to go with Most Valuable Player to his team, no player on a bottom 5 team should be in consideration. Ovechkin should be, but there's a couple other players. My vote would be for Tavares, limited viewing but everytime I've watched him this year he was best player on the ice.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by moon

Crosby carried the team on his back for the start of the season and to a much better record than anything Ovechkin has done. Malkin hasn't played as well as he normally has, Fleury has been his inconsistent self and they had injuries before Crosby went down. The Penguins haven't played as well without Crosby in the line-up as with him either.

Basically you are saying that if you are on a good team you can't win. Crosby has been much, much better than Ovechkin, as valuable if not more valuable to his team than him, contributed to a top team in the league not one struggling to make it in and contributes in all areas of the team not just one.

If Crosby can't win because of some BS notion that his team is too good despite him clearly being the better and more valuable player then why not a guy like Stamkos who has been better than AO and on a team that would be god awful without him? Getzlaf has been better and Anaheim would be a mess without him (but I guess they are too good a team).

Ovechkin is borderline top 5 MVP candidate (likely 8-10th) and not remotely close to Crosby even with his injury.

Fleury is having his best year ever.

Malking did not get off to slow start by any means. He had 15 points in his first 11 games.

Ovechkin has been a more important piece to his team's regular season than Crosby has been. And yes, a player who stands out on a bad team has a better chance of winning the Hart than the same player on a better team. That's just how the award works. It's not the best player; it's the most valuable to their team.

I'm not saying Crosby shouldn't be considered, but your statment was more than a bit much:

If any writer/Gm/Coach (whoever votes for these awards at end of the season) votes for Ovechkin over Crosby for MVP they should be fired from their position and banned from hockey for at least 5 years.

[AR_Six]

I've actually watched a ton of Tavares this year, because I have 3 Islanders in my pool (winning by 23 points with 50 man games remaining... fingers crossed). My observation is that I don't understand how he scores so much. He's clearly a top-tier player, but he doesn't ever really blow you away with the stuff he does the way a Thornton or Datsyuk or Malkin or Kane or Stamkos or Sedins do. Yet he keeps producing. It's nuts.

Anyway, I would actually be okay with Bob for Hart, too. Talk about carrying a team on your back. Really, I expect it'll go to Crosby or Ovechkin and I'm cool with that. I am less cool with the Subban for Norris thing, because I've watched him and his candidacy seems to be more about highlights than actual play. Similarly, the Ducks are basically this year's improved version of the 2012 Minnesota Wild, with the lockout saving them from having the time to crash back to reality, so I have no interest in Boudreau getting an Adams nomination.

On the Selke front, it's just plain about time Toews got one, isn't it?

[moon]

Originally Posted by blankall

Fleury is having his best year ever.

Malking did not get off to slow start by any means. He had 15 points in his first 11 games.

Ovechkin has been a more important piece to his team's regular season than Crosby has been. And yes, a player who stands out on a bad team has a better chance of winning the Hart than the same player on a better team. That's just how the award works. It's not the best player; it's the most valuable to their team.

I'm not saying Crosby shouldn't be considered, but your statment was more than a bit much:

Fleury was bad and inconsistent to start the season. Certainly didn't do much to help the team win when Crosby was carrying them.

Crosby has been much more important to his team than Ovechkin and usually it is guys on top teams that win the award because they are the best players and helping their teams win a lot more games than those on bad/lower teams. Crosby being the best and most valuable to his team is a winner no doubt.

Considering Ovechkin is definitely behind Crosby, Toews, Stamkos, Tavares and Getzlaf and likely behind Bobrovsky and maybe Anderson and Chara there is no reason at all to have him listed as the Hart winner by anyone.

[dfsflamesfan]

Originally Posted by automaton 3

MacLean has to get some consideration....Spezza, Anderson, Michalek and Karlsson all out yet they stayed in contention.

How can you not consider him, just with his moustache alone he can win coach of the year.

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=420953

Eastern Conference:
Hart: Sidney Crosby, Tavares, Ovechkin
Calder: Brendan Gallagher, Jonathan Huberdeau
Vezina: Carey Price, Rask, Lundqvist
Norris: P.K. Subban, Chara, Letang
Selke: Patrice Bergeron,
Jack Adams: Michel Therrien, MacLean, Carlyle

Western Conference:
Hart: Jonathan Toews, Getzlaf, Kane
Calder: Brandon Saad, Brodin
Vezina: Sergei Bobrovsky, Niemi
Norris: Ryan Suter, Beauchemin
Selke: Jonathan Toews, Datsyuk, Kopitar
Jack Adams: Joel Quenneville, Boudreau, Todd Richards

Crosby (blurg)
Gallagher (ugh)
Lundqvist
Subban (blech)
Toews
Quenneville

[Sakari]

People don't really include Carlyle as a Jack Adams winner, and I don't see why. Toronto has pretty much the same team as last year plus Kadri, and they've been awesome all the way through the year.