Feasters chance of staying on ....

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Once again, you are arguing with yourself. Also, once again, you are arguing in a false dichotomy. There are many reasons to dislike Feaster. Among them his actual performance.

But here's the thing. "I don't like Feaster because he has made some bad roster decisions" is a fair opinion. "I don't like Feaster because he is just a yes man" is idiocy given Feaster's history in Tampa.

I'm not saying that Feaster can do no wrong. I am saying that out of several reasons to argue he has done wrong, you seem to consistently pick the dumbest, least realistic ones.

I thought he said himself that he knows nothing about hockey and leans on Michel Goulet and Wiesbrod heavily. Didn't he already basically admit he was the guy doing the clerical work, PR and working the phones.

[browna]

The way this Bouwmeester deal pans out will be the telling sign for King and Ownership if he's still the one for the job. If he manages the situation and negotiations, and gets a better than expected return through the process, he's got some more rope.

His apology to the media last night for not being as open as he used to be and not "doing Flames business" through the media, was cleary an effect of his hands getting slapped over ROR offer sheet, and that was half of his ability he was brought in as AGM for, to be the mouth peice for Sutter and the ability to convince the fans and media via words. If he's lost that ability, he's lost some of the tools for why he was brought here.

Don't get me wrong, I think KK and ownership have their hands still involved in more they should, but that's in part too because those are the terms that Feaster agreed to (outright or indirectly) after presenting the "Rock Solid Plan" (since modified a few times) to get the full time GM job, so if that makes him a yes man, then so be it.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

I am starting to wonder if you are related to him cause you don't think he can do no wrong. I don't like the trades he has made, deal with it. You wanna keep an open mind your entitled to it. I just think he crapped the bed in this trade, you can hold on to hope that we got the next Crosby

Is that what is required as return to make this deal a non failure, acquiring the next Crosby? If so, then your expectations are way, way too high. The Flames missed the boat in trading Iggy for maximum return 2 years ago, he was never going to return our next franchise player in a deal this year, not unless it happens by fluke.

And not trading Iggy two years ago was likely not Feasters doing, in fact Duha suggested today that Iggy himself wasn't open to movement up until this year.

[FlameZilla]

Jay Feaster has made two massive, massive errors recently that has brought the Calgary Flames organisation into a very negative light. The ROR fiasco and now this unprofessional & incompetency dealing with Chiarelli in IginlaGate should make his position untenable. That's not to mention the generally poor returns he's gotten for the assets he has dealt. We are the laughing stock of the entire league.

I'd give him until the draft because I've approved of his selections thus far, but after that I think he either tenders his resignation or is shown the door.

[Quincy Egg]

I don't want Feaster any where near the draft. Ugh, I can't believe they picked Jankowski

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by Quincy Egg

I don't want Feaster any where near the draft. Ugh, I can't believe they picked Jankowski

Incorrect

[moon]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

So you can say with 100 percent certainty that Feaster is not a "yes" man, maybe after "walking away" in Tampa and not getting a job, he has adapted a "yes" man mentality. Personally I think you can't accept anyone else's opinion cause you assume you are always right.

Can't say for 100% but since there is 0 evidence of that being the case and plenty of evidence that it isn't the case hard to believe the make believe conspiracy theory that only makes sense to deluded fans of the team looking for an easy scapegoat other than we have a crappy GM that held on to guys too long and made bad deals.

Not sure how you making stuff up that Resolute never said makes it so he can't accept anyone's else opinion. Seems more like he isn't accepting the BS statements that he never made that you try to attribute to him because you don't want to address the things he is actually saying.

[moon]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

Incorrect

You are saying that Quincey's Egg can believe they drafted Jankowski?

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by Slava

I actually applaud the Flames handling of yesterday completely. When I (along with the rest of the free world) thought the deal was Boston with a conditional first, I could understand why people were angry and calling for his job. We were wrong.

Instead Feaster and his staff seem to be working smartly and are getting results. Sure, Ryan O'Reilly might've been a disaster, but might've worked and finally landed us a center. The Iginla trade wasn't a train wreck at all, from what little we can see today. I have full confidence that his goal is to improve this hockey team and I'm thrilled that as a fan that means taking some risks. We've all heard about them using their stats and other methodologies to evaluate players and I think that's intriguing. It will likely generate different players of interest, but so far it looks decent. Hudler, Cervenka, Wideman, and some decent drafting (or what appears to be at this point) has me feeling optimistic.

I know there are a couple questionable contracts thrown in, but nothing too egregious. In fact I'm really happy with how the team is being run right now. Of course I want more wins, but that will take time.

Seriously? What results are these? I suppose I have no issues with Hudler. Fair contract and Calgary is getting their money's worth on that contract, no more, no less, but Cervenka? They brought him in to play centre and he is not capable of that. Let that sink in for a minute. They scouted the man as a centre and signed him with the hope that he could partially fill the biggest void on the roster, and the man is not able to play centre at the NHL level. Speaking with respect to their scouting ability, that is terrifying. Wideman may be our worst defensive player on this roster and we have him signed at a $5.25 million cap hit until he is 35. Sure, every team has bad contracts and there are certainly teams with worse, but I would hardly consider this a case of Feaster "getting results".

As for the Iginla trade, it was pretty awful. Listening to the hockey world right now, there seems to be unanimous agreement amongst fans and media that Calgary got fleeced on this one. I have no idea how anyone can say that they have full confidence in this man. Consider his "big" trades as a GM and there seems to be a pretty common trend here. Whether it's Richards, Boyle, Regehr, or Iginla, the return has been poor and the respective fanbases are left convincing themselves that the market value for these players was actually much lower than they had previously believed.

The way that I see it, to build a strong team, at least 2 of 3 things needs to happen:
1. You need to win trades
2. You need to sign free agents that end up being good values
3. You need to draft well

During his time as an NHL GM, I challenge anyone to show me when he has accomplished any of these requirements.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

Jay Feaster has made two massive, massive errors recently that has brought the Calgary Flames organisation into a very negative light. The ROR fiasco and now this unprofessional & incompetency dealing with Chiarelli in IginlaGate should make his position untenable. That's not to mention the generally poor returns he's gotten for the assets he has dealt. We are the laughing stock of the entire league.

I'd give him until the draft because I've approved of his selections thus far, but after that I think he either tenders his resignation or is shown the door.

'Iginlagate'? That's funny. I actually think that was brilliant. Iginla only wanted Pittsburgh and had Boston not been as public about it we would get a terrible offer. Instead though, Feaster was able to get a first and a couple of prospects out of this.

I also don't see a hint of incompetence or lack of professionalism here. They didn't tell the media anything and in all honesty that's how it should be. Frankly, the Aaron Ward strut onto the set with the 'scoop' turned out to be my favorite part of the evening and potentially my highlight of the entire season. It wasn't at the time, but in hindsight its one of the funniest things I can recall in a live sports broadcast!

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by Slava

'Iginlagate'? That's funny. I actually think that was brilliant. Iginla only wanted Pittsburgh and had Boston not been as public about it we would get a terrible offer. Instead though, Feaster was able to get a first and a couple of prospects out of this.

I also don't see a hint of incompetence or lack of professionalism here. They didn't tell the media anything and in all honesty that's how it should be. Frankly, the Aaron Ward strut onto the set with the 'scoop' turned out to be my favorite part of the evening and potentially my highlight of the entire season. It wasn't at the time, but in hindsight its one of the funniest things I can recall in a live sports broadcast!

It was unprofessional for Feaster to tell a fellow GM that the deal was done, leave him hanging until midnight and then call him to say the player had chosen to go elsewhere. Watch Chiarelli's press conference; it's enlightening.

[LouCypher]

No matter whether they rebuild or retool they will need star power before to long to keep people happy overall I would think. If Feaster cant leave his mark and find our next new stars by the end of next season I think his fate is sealed.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Hopefully no chance.

But, I can't say I have a lot of faith in the organization to find a better GM than him either.

Had no faith in Feaster from the get go, and he has done little to change that opinion

[moon]

Originally Posted by Slava

Instead Feaster and his staff seem to be working smartly and are getting results. Sure, Ryan O'Reilly might've been a disaster, but might've worked and finally landed us a center.

Part of the working smartly is that giving up our first and 6.5 million dollar salary MIGHT have worked out? I would think you would want that move to be pretty much a guarantee if you are saying it was smart.

The Iginla trade wasn't a train wreck at all, from what little we can see today.

All we have seen today is outsiders laughing at the terrible return and Feaster apologists telling us sure it was bad but not really Feasters fault. Again doesn't seem to be working smart at all.

I have full confidence that his goal is to improve this hockey team and I'm thrilled that as a fan that means taking some risks. We've all heard about them using their stats and other methodologies to evaluate players and I think that's intriguing. It will likely generate different players of interest, but so far it looks decent. Hudler, Cervenka, Wideman, and some decent drafting (or what appears to be at this point) has me feeling optimistic.

Cerevenka has been generally awful with a few spots of offensive flare. Despite all the BS excuses the guy has been a healthy scratch numerous times, shown 0 ability at playing defense, is constantly behind the play because of his lack of speed and can't play the position (which he admited himself he didn't play) that he was specifically brought in for.

Hudler has been okay but certainly nothing to build on and a secondary piece that is overpaid for a long time. Wideman is an absolute disaster in his own end and slowed down offensively. He is poor value for his deal right now and it only is getting worse as he ages.

If an example of their stats and methodology it appears to be at best very poor and likely a complete disaster.

Sorry if I missed the obvious green text but that was a long post for it to be sarcastic (though it would make a lot of sense if it were.)

[Slava]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

It was unprofessional for Feaster to tell a fellow GM that the deal was done, leave him hanging until midnight and then call him to say the player had chosen to go elsewhere. Watch Chiarelli's press conference; it's enlightening.

Well admittedly I only read the highlights of the presser, so the inflections and such aren't there. I'm not sure what you would have him do though? He had to have Iginla sign off, and Chiarelli knew that. He also said that he's dealt players with NMCs before and knows its hard; fact is that if Iginla has decided on Boston he would've made the deal though.

No one wants to see how sausage is made I guess. Its not pretty and I'm sure its somewhat cut-throat.

[Slava]

No Moon, no sarcasm. I just think its easy to forget the mess he inherited and glaring issues we've had for years. We never recovered from the 2004 cup run and a reluctance to plan for the future from that point on. For years the Flames have run a phenomenal business with a terrible product. Feaster seems intent on changing that though and hasn't been afraid to take risks to make that happen.

I'm not going to address all of your points. Honestly, I know full well that there is no point. There is a group of people who are just done with Feaster already, and no convincing them.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Slava

No Moon, no sarcasm. I just think its easy to forget the mess he inherited and glaring issues we've had for years. We never recovered from the 2004 cup run and a reluctance to plan for the future from that point on. For years the Flames have run a phenomenal business with a terrible product. Feaster seems intent on changing that though and hasn't been afraid to take risks to make that happen.

I'm not going to address all of your points. Honestly, I know full well that there is no point. There is a group of people who are just done with Feaster already, and no convincing them.

He can seem intent on anything he wants if he shows that he is incapable of making those changes then his intent is useless.

He didn't inherit close to the mess people try to make it out to be and he made it much worse with his insistence of not rebuilding and going for play-offs when it was clear the talent was not there and the "answers were not in the room."

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well admittedly I only read the highlights of the presser, so the inflections and such aren't there. I'm not sure what you would have him do though? He had to have Iginla sign off, and Chiarelli knew that. He also said that he's dealt players with NMCs before and knows its hard; fact is that if Iginla has decided on Boston he would've made the deal though.

No one wants to see how sausage is made I guess. Its not pretty and I'm sure its somewhat cut-throat.

It just doesn't pay to ##### where you eat, and Feaster has to work with these GMs all the time. Making Chiarelli looks like a fool enough that he felt he had to call a presser about a deal he didn't complete; that's not going to help Jay make deals going forward. He didn't go so far as to insult Jay directly, but if you read between the lines it's pretty clear that he's not happy with Jay's conduct in the matter.

If I were him I wouldn't worry though. I'm sure Feaster will let him fleece the Flames doubly hard at the next opportunity.

[bubbsy]

we need a strong gm for this rebuild.

2 things are critical:
1) Scouting + Drafting + developing
2) Trading assets to bolster the line up

i would give feaster 3 out of 5 stars for the first point, as i am excited at the guys they are drafting, however, curious of the development path (i am unpleased at the way things panned out with irving during the lockout).

for the 2nd point, i'd give him a 1 star. It is for this reason i would prefer a guy like brian burke.

[kyuss275]

I do believe that Feaster should be let go, but i doubt he will be. Judging Feasters background in hockey, i would figure he was hired for his ability to negotiate. I don't think he is very good at negotiations even if he was a lawyer. It really looks like he has to lean on his scouts hard when it comes to player personnel. So if the scouts are looking after the player personnel and he is not a very good negotaitor , then i am not sure what he brings to the table.

The same goes for Ken King, if in fact he does meddle with management. Not sure what he can bring to the table when making decisions about players? The 2 of them conducting trades or ranking players are no better qualified than some of the people on CP.

What i would like is a cross between Sutter and Feaster. Someone with a hockey background that will listen to his scouting department and the AGM.