Brawl between parents at minor hockey game

[Cal]

n/m

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I can't comment on spring hockey in Calgary, but up here I don't think it is a good thing. It has no governing body, it is not sanctioned by Hockey Alberta. There is a coach for a spring hockey team that is banned from coaching in his local association. So the association has deemed him unworthy of coaching kids, yet, he can coach spring hockey because it falls outside of Hockey Alberta. I think it is dangerous and unsafe.

I believe it preys on parent's belief that their kids are "going to the show". In reality minor hockey's job is to produce the best crop of beer league players. Again, I can not speak for Calgary, but locally they are kids making the spring teams that played B level hockey. The programs present themselves as "cream of the crop" but pick players who's parents have means. Up here we have dynamite level spring hockey, born 2006, I think it's nuts.

It is interesting that when scouts ask about a kid one of the things they ask is does he/she play other sports, not does he/she play spring hockey. I think kids are well served to play other sports, my boy is playing lacrosse (and would pick it over hockey) and my girl is playing rugby.

Well said, I agree with pretty much everything. The thing is that spring hockey is for everyone, no longer just the "elite". I think it is funny in, a sad way how much money parents spend on spring hockey and how they march around in their "AAA" jackets. I know all about the "business" side of it and have been around it for many years now, but the thing is you get parents like this in any activity their kids are involved in, whether it be soccer, club Volleyball, or Baseball.

Kids playing a sport year round is nothing new at all, and up here Baseball is a joke untill you get to mid June and soccer is well....soccer. I think it is funny how you mention Lacrosse as that is where I've seen the most crowd violence of any sport. No parents know the rules, yet are constantly shouting at players, coaches anf of course the Reff's. My nephew plays and I try to get to as many games as possible just to take in the crazy parents.

I have met some great, lifelong friends through spring hockey and some complete D bags, and some D bags who've become friends. I just have an issue with the preception that spring hockey is full of crazy parents, when they exist at every level of every childhood activity; even Robotics competions, which incidently are awful since very few of the kids/ parents know how to lose. I've never seem so many tears and pouty parents, althouhg there was no fights.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by valo403

All of this may be perfectly true, but you made a blanket statement above based upon what appears to be pretty scant support. There are plenty of things that drive spring hockey, some of it is certainly parents with a desire to live through their kids, but plenty of it is kids who want to play hockey year round and a host of other potential reasons. You can't paint everyone with a brush simply because some people have the wrong motivations.

Would you take the same view of parents of kids in Australia or South Africa who play rugby year round?

To answer you second question first, yes. I am not a fan of single sport athletes. I think the more exposure an athlete has to different sports the better, example Jeff Wilson he was a Double All Black. The list of hockey players that played lacrosse is long.

I also wonder why, if it is such a good thing Hockey Alberta doesn't support or sanction it.

I am leaving my child with you (the coach) I want to know that this individual is vetted for more than just hockey knowledge.

[pylon]

I don't want to paint with the proverbial brush. But even when I was playing minor hockey back in the day, playing against reserve teams was terrifying for both kids and parents. It was full on Slap Shot but with 12 year olds. Every time we had to go out to the Tsu'Tiina rink, you couldn't sleep the night before. That team was that insane.

I will never forget watching a kid from the reserve, two hand, double ax handle chop a kid in the head repeatedly, half his size, while the parents from the other side were cheering like it was the greatest thing they ever saw. Because he was screening in front of the net. And the refs were from the Reserve and called nothing on the play. In any other rink, the kid would have been booted for the year. We were pulled of the ice by our coach and forfeited, and forfeited our remaining game with them.

As we were walking out, the Reserve parents were calling us F'n Pussays, and every single expletive you could imagine. Keep in mind this was PeeWee, and we were 12. In fact it is one of my most vivid memories from minor hockey, which is kinda sad.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by valo403

Would you take the same view of parents of kids in Australia or South Africa who play rugby year round?

Or Anytown USA where they play Football year round, or Golf, or Baseball, or Basketball.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Well said, I agree with pretty much everything. The thing is that spring hockey is for everyone, no longer just the "elite". I think it is funny in, a sad way how much money parents spend on spring hockey and how they march around in their "AAA" jackets. I know all about the "business" side of it and have been around it for many years now, but the thing is you get parents like this in any activity their kids are involved in, whether it be soccer, club Volleyball, or Baseball.

Kids playing a sport year round is nothing new at all, and up here Baseball is a joke untill you get to mid June and soccer is well....soccer. I think it is funny how you mention Lacrosse as that is where I've seen the most crowd violence of any sport. No parents know the rules, yet are constantly shouting at players, coaches anf of course the Reff's. My nephew plays and I try to get to as many games as possible just to take in the crazy parents.

I have met some great, lifelong friends through spring hockey and some complete D bags, and some D bags who've become friends. I just have an issue with the preception that spring hockey is full of crazy parents, when they exist at every level of every childhood activity; even Robotics competions, which incidently are awful since very few of the kids/ parents know how to lose. I've never seem so many tears and pouty parents, althouhg there was no fights.

To be clear, I did not mention Lacrosse as a sport of sane parents in the stands. I mentioned as an alternative sport.

My issue with spring hockey is the beast itself. I think the governing body in the province should oversee it. Simple. It runs fast and "free".

Also, again up here, it is not presented as "for everybody". Both the Generals and Rustlers have try outs, kids are cut. If it was for everybody, everybody would make it.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

To answer you second question first, yes. I am not a fan of single sport athletes. I think the more exposure an athlete has to different sports the better, example Jeff Wilson he was a Double All Black. The list of hockey players that played lacrosse is long.

I also wonder why, if it is such a good thing Hockey Alberta doesn't support or sanction it.

I am leaving my child with you (the coach) I want to know that this individual is vetted for more than just hockey knowledge.

Depends highly on the sports involved and the skills developed. Lacrosse and hockey are a natural fit, many of the skills are going to cross over. Hockey and baseball? Not so much.

I don't think there's any reason to push a child in any direction. If they want to play 12 months of hockey then sign them up (disregarding costs), if they want to spend their summer playing tennis then sign them up for that.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Or Anytown USA where they play Football year round, or Golf, or Baseball, or Basketball.

Yep, people act like hockey has entered some sort of uncharted territory when it's really far behind a number of sports in terms of the intensity and commitment that is asked of kids. Talk to a family with a high level gymnast about the hours they put in year round. The same goes for tons of other sports. The only thing that makes hockey different is the fact that it's a sport most of us on this board pay attention to.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by valo403

Depends highly on the sports involved and the skills developed. Lacrosse and hockey are a natural fit, many of the skills are going to cross over. Hockey and baseball? Not so much.

I don't think there's any reason to push a child in any direction. If they want to play 12 months of hockey then sign them up (disregarding costs), if they want to spend their summer playing tennis then sign them up for that.

At a certain age kids are not able to make their own decisions, they need adults to make decisions for them.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

To be clear, I did not mention Lacrosse as a sport of sane parents in the stands. I mentioned as an alternative sport.

My issue with spring hockey is the beast itself. I think the governing body in the province should oversee it. Simple. It runs fast and "free".

Also, again up here, it is not presented as "for everybody". Both the Generals and Rustlers have try outs, kids are cut. If it was for everybody, everybody would make it.

Well the Parents will soon figure it out. If your kid is cut, you just go start your own team, of if the coach is making you mad, you go start your own team, or if you want to go to a tourney in Las Vegas, you go start your own team etc...

There really should be some sort of regulation, I would like to see zone teams, based on the Hockey Alberta zones and tiered 1 through to ??? with tryouts every year, and coaches selected every year ala Alberta Cup, cereating a level playing field for all involved.

[bluejays]

That's one of the things I really hated growing up, about minor hockey - trashy parents and kids. While in my days I never seen parents physically fight like this, parents, coaches and players have all had their moments trashing one another verbally. Personally I hate it and wish every dumb fack got booted from ever attending for being so bloody stupid.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Well the Parents will soon figure it out. If your kid is cut, you just go start your own team, of if the coach is making you mad, you go start your own team, or if you want to go to a tourney in Las Vegas, you go start your own team etc...

There really should be some sort of regulation, I would like to see zone teams, based on the Hockey Alberta zones and tiered 1 through to ??? with tryouts every year, and coaches selected every year ala Alberta Cup, cereating a level playing field for all involved.

The first part of your post is what I dislike about spring hockey.

I agree completely. I am still floored that it exists outside of Hockey Alberta. If they moved towards your aforementioned model, it woudl get rid of coaches that are banned in associations, but still coaching.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

At a certain age kids are not able to make their own decisions, they need adults to make decisions for them.

And what age is that? You feel like you're needed to tell your kid that they will be playing lacrosse or rugby? Why?

[Nufy]

Unbelievable...

Where do these parents think they are....

Chucky Cheese !!!

There's a proper place for brawling parents you know...

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by fotze

I think more important than putting the kids in different things is being sure to leave times where they are in nothing. Way too much on the lessons and leagues and camps and crap. Not enough time dedicated to playing with a stick in the back yard.

I would be curious to see what percentage the WHL players did spring hockey or other types of stats like that.

Hugh believer in this. Kids need to play for both physical and mental development.


http://www.edmontonjournal.com/story.html?id=8043213

not to be taken as gospel but:

Today, more and more parents are enrolling their kids in hockey 10-12 months of the year, with the hope their children will become better players.
But is it working?
Brent Sutter says he feels that too much hockey, especially for young kids, will hinder them rather than help them.
“You just don’t have as many players today that are as good athletes as they used to be,” Sutter said recently. “Too much today, especially in young players, is focused on hockey 12 months a year. They don’t play soccer, they don’t play baseball or tennis or the other things that people used to do.”

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by valo403

And what age is that? You feel like you're needed to tell your kid that they will be playing lacrosse or rugby? Why?

You know what I don't need to validate how I raise my kids to you. They are 7 and 9. Both picked their summer/spring sports, both have tried other sports.

My parenting experience tells me that kids can't make their own decisions, not alone.

Maybe your parenting experience is different. I would love to hear it.

[macker]

It doesn't have to be this way. There are lots of spring leagues that are nothing more than 3 on 3 with no coaching at all and just raw hockey aside from some AJHL players doing 15 minutes instruction at the start of each game. If your kids want to play in the spring there are lots of good options available without all the sterotypical issues and dealing with rogue coaches.

[afc wimbledon]

Always amazed me that kids get coached in soccer here, I grew up in the UK and we just played soccer all the time, never had drills and practises, just played at recess with a tennis ball and a couple of bags for goals.

First time I drove past an elementry school and some fat slob was making these 7 and 8 year olds run cone drills it took me a few minutes to work out wtf they were doing.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by pylon

I don't want to paint with the proverbial brush. But even when I was playing minor hockey back in the day, playing against reserve teams was terrifying for both kids and parents. It was full on Slap Shot but with 12 year olds. Every time we had to go out to the Tsu'Tiina rink, you couldn't sleep the night before. That team was that insane.

I will never forget watching a kid from the reserve, two hand, double ax handle chop a kid in the head repeatedly, half his size, while the parents from the other side were cheering like it was the greatest thing they ever saw. Because he was screening in front of the net. And the refs were from the Reserve and called nothing on the play. In any other rink, the kid would have been booted for the year. We were pulled of the ice by our coach and forfeited, and forfeited our remaining game with them.

As we were walking out, the Reserve parents were calling us F'n Pussays, and every single expletive you could imagine. Keep in mind this was PeeWee, and we were 12. In fact it is one of my most vivid memories from minor hockey, which is kinda sad.

I remember having a very similar experience - it was just a tougher and dirtier type of game. That being said it only takes a few minutes to look around a reserve and the problems that are obviously visible to the casual observer in order to determine what factors played into that. Obviously not everyone who played hockey on the reserve was dirty but it sure seemed like it was encouraged a heck of a lot more.

[Winnie]

Originally Posted by valo403

And what age is that? You feel like you're needed to tell your kid that they will be playing lacrosse or rugby? Why?

I don't think it's about choosing the sport they're playing, but ensuring that they are getting a well rounded experience. If your kid says he wants to play video games every day for 12 months of the year, would you let him?