House of Commons passes transgender rights bill

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by SebC

(Wait, disability?)

Medical professionals consider it a medical condition with medical treatments.

[GirlySports]

Was this a free vote? If so then we should be pleased that it was a free vote and not criticise how people voted.

[HELPNEEDED]

It's sad that in canada a bill had to be passed allowing people to use bathrooms of their own sex

[neo45]

Originally Posted by HELPNEEDED

It's sad that in canada a bill had to be passed allowing people to use bathrooms of their own sex

Well, at least it passed....

[OffsideSpecialist]

I seem to recall reading a story in the local newspaper at my parent's place last year about how the local high school didn't know what to do with a transgendered kid in their school. As a temporary solution, they asked her to use the washroom at the Harvey's nearby, as it was a private washroom. It turns out that they never actually found a solution for her, and she spent much of the school year going to a fast food joint to use their washroom. This was, I guess, until her family went to the paper and the school quickly found a solution.

[FlamesAddiction]

I guess the question is, is this vote a democratic representation of the overall opinion in the country? If so, then there is nothing to complain about.

I am very liberal when it comes to these things and disagree with anyone who voted against it, but if those votes were representative of their constituents, then they voted correctly.

I honestly don't know what public opinion is on this, but it wouldn't surprise me if it is in line with the same ratio as the Commons vote.

[temple5]

So with a Conservative majority in the House of Commons and the full ability to defeat any Bill brought forward by any Opposition parties, the bill ...... passed.

So people either hate the ability to vote freely on any issue, or they hate the Conservatives and need something to proclaim their hate about.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Cole436

I can't see the Conservatives sticking past the next election.
Their leadership group is a bunch of social dinosaurs.

They could have chosen not to make it a free vote and defeated the motion. I suspect many of those who voted against did so to placate a certain section of their supporters. This way they get to say "we opposed this bill! Bargle bargle!" while being fully aware it was going to pass if they didn't take more than symbolic action.

In Canada, it's mostly the NDP who buy what they themselves are selling. The other parties are more interested in power and appeasing their base, than ideology. Personally, I prefer such cynicism, as bends to the popular will much more easily than true belief.

[CaptainCrunch]

If you guys don't think that Harper knew that the bill was going to pass and allowed people to vote either freely or strategically you're fooling yourself.

Jammies hit the nail on the head. The only hidden agenda was that they knew it was going to pass and allowed it to pass.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I guess the question is, is this vote a democratic representation of the overall opinion in the country? If so, then there is nothing to complain about.

I am very liberal when it comes to these things and disagree with anyone who voted against it, but if those votes were representative of their constituents, then they voted correctly.

I honestly don't know what public opinion is on this, but it wouldn't surprise me if it is in line with the same ratio as the Commons vote.

Human rights should not be subject to the democratic process. look at how well a "progressive" state like California handled gay marriage through a vote

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by jammies

They could have chosen not to make it a free vote and defeated the motion. I suspect many of those who voted against did so to placate a certain section of their supporters. This way they get to say "we opposed this bill! Bargle bargle!" while being fully aware it was going to pass if they didn't take more than symbolic action.

In Canada, it's mostly the NDP who buy what they themselves are selling. The other parties are more interested in power and appeasing their base, than ideology. Personally, I prefer such cynicism, as bends to the popular will much more easily than true belief.

It's easy to buy what you yourself are selling when you're never be in that position (government)

That's like me saying if I was voted President of the Flames, I'd sell tickets for $1.

[Hanni]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Was this a free vote? If so then we should be pleased that it was a free vote and not criticise how people voted.

Free vote or not politicians should always be open to valid criticism of their public voting record.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

It's easy to buy what you yourself are selling when you're never be in that position (government)

That's like me saying if I was voted President of the Flames, I'd sell tickets for $1.

I actually disagree with both of you. The NDP don't get in precisely because their ideology isn't in tune with a majority of Canadians. However, to say the Conservatives don't push a strong section of their own ideologies that also don't resonate with the majority of the population (defense spending, OMNIBUS, etc.) isn't true either.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Was this a free vote? If so then we should be pleased that it was a free vote and not criticise how people voted.

That's absolutely ridiculous.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by jammies

They could have chosen not to make it a free vote and defeated the motion. I suspect many of those who voted against did so to placate a certain section of their supporters. This way they get to say "we opposed this bill! Bargle bargle!" while being fully aware it was going to pass if they didn't take more than symbolic action.

In Canada, it's mostly the NDP who buy what they themselves are selling. The other parties are more interested in power and appeasing their base, than ideology. Personally, I prefer such cynicism, as bends to the popular will much more easily than true belief.

Pandering to the worst elements of your base is a laudable characteristic? I hope not.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Pandering to the worst elements of your base is a laudable characteristic? I hope not.

I'll take a realistic cynic over an idealist every time. The cynic can be swayed by argument, the idealist can't.

In this case, the Conservatives both placated the "worst elements" AND did the right thing by not blocking the bill. I don't see how this isn't better than sticking to their "principles" and forcing the party line.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Human rights should not be subject to the democratic process. look at how well a "progressive" state like California handled gay marriage through a vote

What do you suggest as an alternative?

You can't dictate them either as whoever the leader is could just as easily dictate something even less favourable to human rights. The democratic process is what keep the politicians in line.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by jammies

I'll take a realistic cynic over an idealist every time. The cynic can be swayed by argument, the idealist can't.

In this case, the Conservatives both placated the "worst elements" AND did the right thing by not blocking the bill. I don't see how this isn't better than sticking to their "principles" and forcing the party line.

But you presumably can see how ignoring the "worst elements" and supporting the bill would be better than either of the choices you presented, right?

[jammies]

Originally Posted by SebC

But you presumably can see how ignoring the "worst elements" and supporting the bill would be better than either of the choices you presented, right?

You can only do that so many times before you alienate your base. That's how the Reform party was launched, because not even lip service was being given to their viewpoint any more. And then you have no power, because someone else is in office, and how you might handle these things becomes a moot point.

[WilderPegasus]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

There are lots of women in Portland that transitioned in grade school

Portland sounds like one messed up place. Kids shouldn't be getting their junk lopped off.