Addition by Removal

[Heavy Jack]

How does Comeau + Butler not get you a O'Rielly or a Despres + a 1st. I mean right?

[Jason14h]

Our problem, very SIMPLY put, is a lack of fire, leadership, and faceoff ability.

I don't think it is anywhere near that SIMPLY put.

In fact, I would argue only #3 is correct.

Having no centers, and the smallest team in the league would be up there though!

No amount of fire or leadership is going to turn Stajan, Backlund and Tanguay into 3 real centers capable of competing west ANY of the leagues centers

[mister__big]

When our captain, star player and biggest asset is a "-1" on most nights, therein lies the problem.

When most of the players see the captain being a "-1", they tend to take it in and play accordingly. Right now there's no accountability so most players just do the bare minimum to get by, much like their leader. I'm of the opinion that if the Flames had a heart-and-soul captain who gives his best on every shift, everyone's play would improve noticeably.

[Nuje]

Originally Posted by Joker

String me up from the Calgary Tower and stone me, but i agree with what Rhett Warrener said about Iginla. That is a huge problem imo. How many coaches have failed to motivate this team now? The team gets out worked on a regular basis and it doesnt seem to bother the captain...Have to think that filters down to the rest of the team.

I think that's a bunch of BS that's been perpetuated around Calgary for a long time.

The whole "if the Flames play hard they win almost every time" is getting old. While the statement itself is true, people assume that the top teams in the league are up there because they play their best every night. The problem is simply a lack of talent (of all sorts) on the Flames, that has been a problem for a very long time now. The best teams have the ability to work harder than the Flames most nights, for two reasons.

1. Since they have better players, they're probably in better shape on average, and
2. Their talent means they don't have to grind to the point of bodies that are sore 5 days later, hence it's more likely that they're capable of repeating it the same game.

Factor in, as well, a talented team's ability to steal a couple games that they got outplayed in due to talented player X having a wicked lucky night (made possible by their skill) and you have a team who's going to win a lot of games. Miikka Kiprusoff truly allowed us to mitigate much of these problems for a very long time. Without him, that great team having a bad night will probably STILL beat the Flames half the time, unless they play to a T AND get lucky as well. 4 decent scoring chances usually equals at least 3 goals against the Flames when Kipper isn't there to save us.

The gap between us and the teams talented enough to win a playoff round or two (which damn well be the minimum anyone wants to aim for) is immense right now. Real life sports aren't some inspirational movie. Motivation and good feelings can be helpful, but they can only take you so far. The best incentive to play better is evidence that better play is likely to result in wins. We don't see that right now.

[doctajones428]

I think it's time the C comes off Iginla for awhile, it will light a major 5 alarm fire under his ass

Iginla is setting up some nice goals but that's not his role, he needs to score, and he and he alone needs to carry this team or we're going nowhere. He needs to re-earn that C and re-earn it with his play, the way he earned it the first time.

This may be his last shot to take this team to the playoffs, because I don't see him re-signing if we don't make it

[sa226]

This is more semantics than anything, but I think this current version of the flames is the most talented version since the Keenan years. Paper talent wise, we can ice 3 scoring lines.

The problem is the allocation of talent is a mess.

[Psytic]

There is more chance of hell freezing over than the Flames getting Getzlef or Perry. Over half the league would be interested in getting one of those two. I don't see any scenario where they sign to a perennial bottom feeder that shows no signs of competing anytime soon. Calgary isn't thought of as being one of the top destination NHL cities either. We are just going to have to get lucky via draft or trading for a prospect that isn't established yet for a good center.

[Flame Man12]

Big part of the problem is that they resemble the Smurfs and they play with no guts. Lot of Iginla bashing going on but how would the games be without him. Not scoring but getting/generating chances. At least that means less time in their own end when he is on the ice. Their defence sucks. Say what you want about Sarich but at least he has a little bit of aggressiveness to him. The rest are just way too soft. Lack of desire on most guys part. How come the first 4 or 5 games this year they played such an entertaining style and now have reverted? They looked like the 1970's Habs out there the first few games and now they look like the same old boring Flames.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Flame Man12

Big part of the problem is that they resemble the Smurfs and they play with no guts. Lot of Iginla bashing going on but how would the games be without him. Not scoring but getting/generating chances. At least that means less time in their own end when he is on the ice. Their defence sucks. Say what you want about Sarich but at least he has a little bit of aggressiveness to him. The rest are just way too soft. Lack of desire on most guys part. How come the first 4 or 5 games this year they played such an entertaining style and now have reverted? They looked like the 1970's Habs out there the first few games and now they look like the same old boring Flames.

Because they have no faith in the goaltending. It's hard to play run-and-gun hockey when your goalies are guaranteed to let in goals on more than half the scoring chances the other team gets.

The problem is, it's also difficult to play defensively when you have a soft, small team.

[Jason14h]

When our captain, star player and biggest asset is a "-1" on most nights, therein lies the problem.

When most of the players see the captain being a "-1", they tend to take it in and play accordingly. Right now there's no accountability so most players just do the bare minimum to get by, much like their leader. I'm of the opinion that if the Flames had a heart-and-soul captain who gives his best on every shift, everyone's play would improve noticeably.

Iginla is -3 on the season. Here are the players with a worst or tied +/-

Tanguay -7
Cammalleri -3
Glencross -4
Bouwmeester -3
Cervenka -5
Giordano -4
Comeau -5
Butler -7
Sarich -3
Jackman -3

We also have the following players at -2
Wideman
Hudler
Begin
Babchuk
Smith

I guess it's Iginla's fault all these guys are just as bad +/- wise?

If players on this team actually look at a 35 year old captain with 1200 career games and expect him to carry the team game in and game out, and slack off because he isn't, we have much bigger problems then just Iginla being the captain.

Not to mention, who would you put the C on?

[Asain421]

I agree with you! They really need to fix up their best line. I believe that we have the players to make our team go far but it's just the matter of changing them around and expecting more out of the best line. I'm not too sure if I am expecting too much from Iginla this year

Originally Posted by Itse

This is silly. Why would any team NOT put better players on ice if they could, regardless of position?

Besides, Blake Comeau and Chris Butler play 10 and 15 minutes per game on average. That does not explain why for every ES goal Alex Tanguay has been a part of, he's been on ice for two goals against. That's a much bigger problem than what goes on when Comeau is on ice.

And Tanguay is one of the best we got. It's not his fault that he's not good enough to win us games.

The reason we are losing 2 games out of 3 is NOT because our bottom guys are not good enough. It's because the BEST lines we can ice on average lose their matchups.

There's your problem. Fix that and you fix the team. No voodoo, no rocket science. Our best lines are not good lines, and our best players are not that great.

Unfortunately, there's no easy way of fixing that. We don't have the resources, due largely to prolonged resource mismanagement. Which is something that I am not at all convinced that Feaster has been any better with. Veterans and UFA's should have been traded in the previous seasons, and he has kept on wasting picks. Not high picks and not a lot of picks, but he's still in the red there.

[doctajones428]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Iginla is -3 on the season. Here are the players with a worst or tied +/-

Tanguay -7
Cammalleri -3
Glencross -4
Bouwmeester -3
Cervenka -5
Giordano -4
Comeau -5
Butler -7
Sarich -3
Jackman -3

We also have the following players at -2
Wideman
Hudler
Begin
Babchuk
Smith

I guess it's Iginla's fault all these guys are just as bad +/- wise?

If players on this team actually look at a 35 year old captain with 1200 career games and expect him to carry the team game in and game out, and slack off because he isn't, we have much bigger problems then just Iginla being the captain.

Not to mention, who would you put the C on?

The sentiment has absolutely nothing to do with actual +/-.

Cammalleri I would think deserves the C. He never takes a shift off and he HATES losing

[DoNotCompute]

He never takes a shift off

That's odd cause I recall him basically taking every game off prior to his injury while he was busy pouting about his linemates...

[Yakbutter]

Originally Posted by doctajones428

The sentiment has absolutely nothing to do with actual +/-.

Cammalleri I would think deserves the C. He never takes a shift off and he HATES losing

camamalleri has taken the entire season off.

[Joker]

Originally Posted by Nuje

I think that's a bunch of BS that's been perpetuated around Calgary for a long time.

The whole "if the Flames play hard they win almost every time" is getting old. While the statement itself is true, people assume that the top teams in the league are up there because they play their best every night. The problem is simply a lack of talent (of all sorts) on the Flames, that has been a problem for a very long time now. The best teams have the ability to work harder than the Flames most nights, for two reasons.

1. Since they have better players, they're probably in better shape on average, and
2. Their talent means they don't have to grind to the point of bodies that are sore 5 days later, hence it's more likely that they're capable of repeating it the same game.

Factor in, as well, a talented team's ability to steal a couple games that they got outplayed in due to talented player X having a wicked lucky night (made possible by their skill) and you have a team who's going to win a lot of games. Miikka Kiprusoff truly allowed us to mitigate much of these problems for a very long time. Without him, that great team having a bad night will probably STILL beat the Flames half the time, unless they play to a T AND get lucky as well. 4 decent scoring chances usually equals at least 3 goals against the Flames when Kipper isn't there to save us.

The gap between us and the teams talented enough to win a playoff round or two (which damn well be the minimum anyone wants to aim for) is immense right now. Real life sports aren't some inspirational movie. Motivation and good feelings can be helpful, but they can only take you so far. The best incentive to play better is evidence that better play is likely to result in wins. We don't see that right now.

Obviously there is more to it. However, it isn't only the fact that they aren't winning. I can stomach losing when you watch them put forth a solid effort. I cant stand watching them lay down and be dominated for 80% of a game. Someone has to go out and spark the team, and when you are the captain, that is your job. Does he do it? Throw a hit, create a chance, get in someones face. Dont just sit there joking with whoever is beside you on the bench, then go float around for 25 seconds. If Jarome goes out and puts in a good effort, you would be surprised how far it would go. If he doesn't want that responsibility, maybe relinquish the "C". Everyone knows what the guy is capable of, and how well conditioned he is, but thats what is frustrating.

[Joker]

.......maybe he is giving his best effort and what we have seen is all he has left. If thats the case, I feel bad for calling him out, but i cant really see that being reality.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Joker

Obviously there is more to it. However, it isn't only the fact that they aren't winning. I can stomach losing when you watch them put forth a solid effort. I cant stand watching them lay down and be dominated for 80% of a game. Someone has to go out and spark the team, and when you are the captain, that is your job. Does he do it? Throw a hit, create a chance, get in someones face. Dont just sit there joking with whoever is beside you on the bench, then go float around for 25 seconds. If Jarome goes out and puts in a good effort, you would be surprised how far it would go. If he doesn't want that responsibility, maybe relinquish the "C". Everyone knows what the guy is capable of, and how well conditioned he is, but thats what is frustrating.

So how about games like Wednesday night where he was the best Flames player on the ice, and everyone else was a no show? Iginla has been sparking this team for years, with fights, huge goals, hits, you name it. He simply can't take command of the game like he used to though, he's older.

I've said it before, but why are all these supposed professionals waiting for Iggy to be stripped of the C to step up? If the Flames have a leader in the dressing room better than Iginla why hasn't he shown himself? Is he scared?

The C means nothing. Iginla got the C because he clearly became the best and most depended on player on the team. When someone else does that, they'll get the C. Iggy will probably give it to them himself.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by doctajones428

The sentiment has absolutely nothing to do with actual +/-.

Cammalleri I would think deserves the C. He never takes a shift off and he HATES losing

really? and Iginla loves losing?

[Joker]

Originally Posted by Igottago

So how about games like Wednesday night where he was the best Flames player on the ice, and everyone else was a no show? Iginla has been sparking this team for years, with fights, huge goals, hits, you name it. He simply can't take command of the game like he used to though, he's older.

I've said it before, but why are all these supposed professionals waiting for Iggy to be stripped of the C to step up? If the Flames have a leader in the dressing room better than Iginla why hasn't he shown himself? Is he scared?

The C means nothing. Iginla got the C because he clearly became the best and most depended on player on the team. When someone else does that, they'll get the C. Iggy will probably give it to them himself.

Didnt say he needs to take over games. Didnt say he needs to fight every night, or even score like he used to. As the captain, it absolutely is his, as well as the coach's job, to spark the team.

[C-COOP]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

the peices in the present team that are young enough and talented enough should be kept everyone else should be looked at as a potential peice of a trade for the 5 year plan.

This sounds like someone who has NOT spent $10,000 in seasons tickets.