Liberal MLA Kent Hehr calls for merger of the left

[SebC]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

I personally think this could be accomplished simply with the re-branding of the Liberals. I thought the Alberta party was supposed to be that but maybe the Liberals are to stuborn to give up the "Red".

I dont see a merger working as there would be no equitable split. And in every merger there needs to be a winner and a loser and no party would want to be seen as the "loser".

The Liberal membership has passed a co-operation resolution but it was vetoed by the leadership. I think the NDP would be less amenable to co-operation than the Liberals (mainly due to their federal ties). That's why one of the paths to unite the left could be to simply disband the Alberta Liberals. The idea is that supporters would move to the NDP, and then moderate the NDP policies from the inside.

Some would probably go the PCs though, and try to shift them left.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by SebC

As opposed to a parliament that represents none of them? It's better have a party that's in the same ballpark as what you believe that (hypothetically) could actually win than one that represents your views exactly but doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell.

Well, at the federal level, I would argue that the NDP and Liberals are not close to each others ballparks. Your argument, while passionate, is invalid.

At the provincial level, this is pretty much a proposal to vote for Chicken McNuggets: Take the leftovers nobody would rightly want separately and mash it together to try and make it into something palatable if you bread it thick enough.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Well, at the federal level, I would argue that the NDP and Liberals are not close to each others ballparks. Your argument, while passionate, is invalid.

At the provincial level, this is pretty much a proposal to vote for Chicken McNuggets: Take the leftovers nobody would rightly want separately and mash it together to try and make it into something palatable if you bread it thick enough.

At the federal level, I would agree. But there are a few things to point out. First, an NDP supporter would almost certainly prefer a Liberal representative or government over a Conservative one. Therefore, strategic voting where they are third place should be a no-brainer. Second, a merged Liberal-NDP party would be closer to the Liberals than the NDP currently are, and it would also be closer to the NDP than the Liberals currently are. For a sizeable chunk of their current supporters, the merged party would be in the ballpark (which really just means prefered over the Conservatives; it is only for some of the Liberals that a merged party would be less attractive then the Conservatives). Post-merger, the merged party and the Conservatives would be faced with the same dynamic the US parties face: where the party has to balance appealing to its based with being moderate enough to win. Let me tell you though, the longer the Conservatives stay in power, the more appetite for a merger there will be. And should that happen, I think the Conservatives would be pretty damn screwed.

At the provincial level, I think some kind of unification is an obvious move, simply because each party individually has such a low support party. Even a unified party would likely need to move to the centre (or at least be perceived as such - I think the Liberal issue at the provincial level is more a brand thing than a policy thing).

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by SebC

The Liberal membership has passed a co-operation resolution but it was vetoed by the leadership. I think the NDP would be less amenable to co-operation than the Liberals (mainly due to their federal ties). That's why one of the paths to unite the left could be to simply disband the Alberta Liberals. The idea is that supporters would move to the NDP, and then moderate the NDP policies from the inside.

Some would probably go the PCs though, and try to shift them left.

This has pretty much already happened.

[crazy_eoj]

I would argue the Liberal Party of Alberta sits to the right of the PC's on the fiscal responsibility side of the political spectrum, while the NDP sits even further left than the PC's.

A merger would really just create the PC2 party, which in all likelihood is why you have seen both the Libs and NDP voter support collapsing over the past few years.

[troutman]

As long as there is a Wild Rose party, people on the left will vote PC.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by SebC

The Liberal membership has passed a co-operation resolution but it was vetoed by the leadership. I think the NDP would be less amenable to co-operation than the Liberals (mainly due to their federal ties). That's why one of the paths to unite the left could be to simply disband the Alberta Liberals. The idea is that supporters would move to the NDP, and then moderate the NDP policies from the inside.

Some would probably go the PCs though, and try to shift them left.

Ugg. Personally, a rebranded party that has a fair balance between city, rural, and industry is what is needed. The PC and Wildrose are not that unfortunately and Alberta needs something that isnt tainted with Trudeau red or Vancouver orange.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by troutman

as long as there is a wild rose party, people in the center and left will vote pc.

fyp

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by troutman

As long as there is a Wild Rose party, people on the left will vote PC.

Thus, as long as corruption and deficit spending is tolerated, then the PC's will retain power?

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Thus, as long as corruption and deficit spending is tolerated, then the PC's will retain power?

As long as the alternative is bat####, then yes. The thing about corrupt is its predictable. Crazy is well, crazy. Who knows where it could go?

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Thus, as long as corruption and deficit spending is tolerated, then the PC's will retain power?

As long as the WRP positions themselves on the far right of the political spectrum, both socially and fiscally, the PC party will retain power.

If one or the other of those moves towards the center, then the WRP has a better than good chance of forming our government for a long time.

Personally, I would welcome that move, because my PC vote last election was more an anti-WRP vote based on the last 3 weeks of the election (and my personal interaction with both the PC and WRP candidates in my riding) than it was a pro-PC vote.

[c.t.ner]

Well this is one way to derail any talks of a merger or some sort of new way of looking at one's party.

http://daveberta.ca/2012/12/todd-van-vliet-kent-hehr/

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

I think the uncomfortable truth is that a merged NDP-Liberal party, even assuming the most favourable math possible, would still not have much of a shot at any seats that are not in inner city Edmonton and Calgary. This is not a business where "close" counts for anything, unfortunately, and winning 7 or 8 urban seats in each of the two big centers and maybe (MAYBE) one in Lethbridge is not a good ceiling to have.

With that in mind, why merge? To get MLA jobs for a few more urban progressives?

While that's a laudable goal, I think the Nenshi plan is better. Take over city councils and mayoral seats and start making a real difference at the municipal level while the Provincial chattering class bickers about which lawyers they hire and who can harrumph the loudest.

[Resolute 14]

The New Libercratic Party would basically have to campaign for the Wildrose and hope for massive vote splitting and a friendly cast of the dice just to have a chance at forming government. And then, suddenly, the whole "60% voted for the party that didn't win" rhetoric would be silenced as the New Libercrats hope that people won't notice that 60% (in this scenario) didn't vote for them.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

I think the uncomfortable truth is that a merged NDP-Liberal party, even assuming the most favourable math possible, would still not have much of a shot at any seats that are not in inner city Edmonton and Calgary. This is not a business where "close" counts for anything, unfortunately, and winning 7 or 8 urban seats in each of the two big centers and maybe (MAYBE) one in Lethbridge is not a good ceiling to have.

With that in mind, why merge? To get MLA jobs for a few more urban progressives?

While that's a laudable goal, I think the Nenshi plan is better. Take over city councils and mayoral seats and start making a real difference at the municipal level while the Provincial chattering class bickers about which lawyers they hire and who can harrumph the loudest.

"Politics is local" as cowperson likes to remind us every election cycle.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The New Libercratic Party would basically have to campaign for the Wildrose and hope for massive vote splitting and a friendly cast of the dice just to have a chance at forming government. And then, suddenly, the whole "60% voted for the party that didn't win" rhetoric would be silenced as the New Libercrats hope that people won't notice that 60% (in this scenario) didn't vote for them.

Honestly, even that would never work--the geographic base isn't wide enough. You need to have your vote situated relatively evenly across the province, otherwise the best case scenario is sweeping the city and inner suburbs, and finding yourself as the official opposition.

A better plan is to figure out a way to make a center-right (i.e. Liberal) platform appealing to rural Albertans.