Chemical Weapon used in Syria, Western military response likely

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

my point was you don't develop chemical weapons these days to fight opposing armies, there are much more efficient ways to spend military dollars. the only reason to create them in the first place is to subdue a civilian population

Assad would probably not hesitate to use them if Syria was invaded, but i don't believe for a second that was his original intention when he started the production

Depends on the foreign army, when the chemical weapons program was started it was specifically built to deal with foreign armies invading Syria, for the most part the armies in that region aren't really built to deal with chemical weapons use. When Iran and Iraq were gassing each other in their long war, their idea of contravening the effects of chemical weapons was to give their troops rain coats and run them through the area hoping to play the percentages.

Turkey who is the 8000 pound gorilla in the room does not have a lot of chemical warfare suits and atropine kits readily available.

There are very few armies in that area that are well suited to fight in that environment, surprisingly Syria is one of the armies that is.

[_Q_]

This is pretty scary stuff. I'm worried as hell about my relatives in Homs at the moment.

Hopefully this passes without incident.

[CaptainCrunch]

Isn't that one of the centers of the revolution Q?

Hopefully common sense gets in the way of this stupidity, but I would hope that they get out of there.

There's really no defense against this stuff for civilians unless they make thier home air tight and seal ever crack and seam in the house.

It takes a tiny droplet of this stuff to create a lethal dose and its initially a lighter then air cloud .

Not trying to worry you, and if I did I'm sorry, but people should be evacuating areas of high value targets.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Isn't that one of the centers of the revolution Q?

Hopefully common sense gets in the way of this stupidity, but I would hope that they get out of there.

There's really no defense against this stuff for civilians unless they make thier home air tight and seal ever crack and seam in the house.

It takes a tiny droplet of this stuff to create a lethal dose and its initially a lighter then air cloud .

Not trying to worry you, and if I did I'm sorry, but people should be evacuating areas of high value targets.

Yeah that is the centre of the revolution so I'm assuming it will be one of the first to be attacked if Bashar goes nuts.

We've tried to convince them to leave Syria, but they won't leave. My Aunt and her husband are doctors at a Palestinian refugee camp in Homs. Seeing as they work in one of the only hospitals in the area, they think it's immoral to leave the city when so many people are in need of treatment. They've been harassed by the government, threatened and one of their children has been arrested and tortured, but they're pretty adamant about staying and helping the civilians. Their kids, have left to Damascus, which maybe doesn't sound like a big deal to people here, but it is better.

Thanks for the concern CC.

[Knut]

^yikes man.

Your Aunt and Uncle are heroic for staying. I hope they remain safe.

[CaptainCrunch]

Well at least they'll have access to atropine if this happens. Can't they move the refugees and evacuate the hospitals.

Good luck to your relatives.

[undercoverbrother]

Wait, why does Canada need new fighter planes?

Q, I hope your family stays safe.

[_Q_]

Well these Palestinian refugee camps aren't really "camps", they're basically just suburbs now since they've been there for so many decades. It's not that easy to just pick up and move. Hopefully they do have access to atropine. I know that getting supplies has been extremely difficult since the outbreak of war, but my Aunt and Uncle do get medical supplies smuggled in from Turkey and Jordan.

The only thing I take comfort in right now is the fact that this particular camp is located on the outskirts of the city and Palestinians have been fairly neutral in this whole thing. I would think that if Bashar shows some semblance of sanity, he would just want to attack rebel strongholds and spare the civilians that have nothing to do with this. Also, the Palestinians have always been used as a pawn by the Baath party, so it would kind of go against their ideals to attack innocent Palestinians and destroy their hospital. I don't know anything about Sarin, so I'm not sure what kind of damage this could do to the outskirt of Homs if say it was released in Downtown.

[undercoverbrother]

And Russia's thoughts:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...a-8381157.html

Foreign minister Sergei Lavrov declared that there had been an exaggeration of the threat faced by Turkey to justify Nato’s deployment of Patriot missile batteries and the move will end up adding to the tension in the region; “any such deployment is creating the risk that these arms will be used” he maintained

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

my point was you don't develop chemical weapons these days to fight opposing armies, there are much more efficient ways to spend military dollars. the only reason to create them in the first place is to subdue a civilian population

Assad would probably not hesitate to use them if Syria was invaded, but i don't believe for a second that was his original intention when he started the production

You are probably right in it won't be a direct attack against an opposing army, just it'll waste the other sides resources because they'll have to delivery extra medical supplies and otherwise slow down invading armies like CC said before attacking the capital. They do make great diversionary weapons if NATO puts a significant number of boots on the ground (which probably won't happen)

It'll give him time to pull his other troops back to Damascus and probably set up all the anti air defenses for the airstrikes that'll probably be used to attack him.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Yeah that is the centre of the revolution so I'm assuming it will be one of the first to be attacked if Bashar goes nuts.

We've tried to convince them to leave Syria, but they won't leave. My Aunt and her husband are doctors at a Palestinian refugee camp in Homs. Seeing as they work in one of the only hospitals in the area, they think it's immoral to leave the city when so many people are in need of treatment. They've been harassed by the government, threatened and one of their children has been arrested and tortured, but they're pretty adamant about staying and helping the civilians. Their kids, have left to Damascus, which maybe doesn't sound like a big deal to people here, but it is better.

Thanks for the concern CC.

Kinda makes the "Grind my gears" thread a little silly

[mikey_the_redneck]

This is Western war propaganda. I remember how they fabricated a bunch of so called evidence that Iraq was making WMD's.

Bashar Al Assad has no interest in using chemical weapons on civilians. It would be downright ######ed from a strategic standpoint. Assad is well aware that NATO/USA are drooling at the chance for military intervention and regime change. He knows they have to take him out to get at Iran.

There is no "popular uprising" against Assad. This is a western backed insurgency and many of the "rebels" are foreign fundamentalist Al-Qaeda types from Libya, Saudi Arabia etc. They want to install Sharia law there, just like in Libya.

I'm going to call it right here. The rebels themselves will probably use a chemical weapon acquired from their NATO sponsors or Libya to stage an attack on civilians and blame it on Assad, which will provide the pretext for military force.

They already tried to pull a false flag incident with the Homs massacre. The rebels killed a bunch of innocents and tried to blame it on Assad, ....but unfortunately some of the European media called their bluff and questioned it.

[Knut]

Oh good... Mikey is here. Where everything that happens in the world is Fabricated by the West.

[polak]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

This is Western war propaganda. I remember how they fabricated a bunch of so called evidence that Iraq was making WMD's.

Bashar Al Assad has no interest in using chemical weapons on civilians. It would be downright ######ed from a strategic standpoint. Assad is well aware that NATO/USA are drooling at the chance for military intervention and regime change. He knows they have to take him out to get at Iran.

There is no "popular uprising" against Assad. This is a western backed insurgency and many of the "rebels" are foreign fundamentalist Al-Qaeda types from Libya, Saudi Arabia etc. They want to install Sharia law there, just like in Libya.

I'm going to call it right here. The rebels themselves will probably use a chemical weapon acquired from their NATO sponsors or Libya to stage an attack on civilians and blame it on Assad, which will provide the pretext for military force.

They already tried to pull a false flag incident with the Homs massacre. The rebels killed a bunch of innocents and tried to blame it on Assad, ....but unfortunately some of the European media called their bluff and questioned it.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Well these Palestinian refugee camps aren't really "camps", they're basically just suburbs now since they've been there for so many decades. It's not that easy to just pick up and move. Hopefully they do have access to atropine. I know that getting supplies has been extremely difficult since the outbreak of war, but my Aunt and Uncle do get medical supplies smuggled in from Turkey and Jordan.

The only thing I take comfort in right now is the fact that this particular camp is located on the outskirts of the city and Palestinians have been fairly neutral in this whole thing. I would think that if Bashar shows some semblance of sanity, he would just want to attack rebel strongholds and spare the civilians that have nothing to do with this. Also, the Palestinians have always been used as a pawn by the Baath party, so it would kind of go against their ideals to attack innocent Palestinians and destroy their hospital. I don't know anything about Sarin, so I'm not sure what kind of damage this could do to the outskirt of Homs if say it was released in Downtown.

I'm not trying to scare you, but Bashar has used helicopter gunships and fighter bombers on in city targets. There's recent evidence that his military used illegal cluster munitions on a refugee camp on the Turkish border and he's indiscriminate with the use of artillary.

With these third world despots the best way in their mind to stop a rebellion is to sow terror and make examples using civillians.

I'm hoping I'm worng on this but if he's willing to use chemical weapons on the rebels he isn't going to care if they're mixed with civilians.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I'm not trying to scare you, but Bashar has used helicopter gunships and fighter bombers on in city targets. There's recent evidence that his military used illegal cluster munitions on a refugee camp on the Turkish border and he's indiscriminate with the use of artillary.

With these third world despots the best way in their mind to stop a rebellion is to sow terror and make examples using civillians.

I'm hoping I'm worng on this but if he's willing to use chemical weapons on the rebels he isn't going to care if they're mixed with civilians.

Thanks.

Well in that case, hopefully it's NATO to the rescue soon. I don't know if I could be as brave as the doctors that remain in a war zone. It takes a lot of courage to save lives knowing that you might be in danger yourself.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

This is Western war propaganda. I remember how they fabricated a bunch of so called evidence that Iraq was making WMD's.

Just stop, put down the pamplets and put away the insano conspiracy theory books.

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Bashar Al Assad has no interest in using chemical weapons on civilians. It would be downright ######ed from a strategic standpoint. Assad is well aware that NATO/USA are drooling at the chance for military intervention and regime change. He knows they have to take him out to get at Iran.

Because Bashar Al Assad has been so caring of civilians with the use of fighter bombers and helicopter gun ships firing into civilian buildings and dropping cluster bombs on refugees, and having tanks firing at any building that comes within main gun range. Unless your saying that the clearly marked helicopters and jets are actually U.S. piloted knockoffs or rebel flown bombers.

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

There is no "popular uprising" against Assad. This is a western backed insurgency and many of the "rebels" are foreign fundamentalist Al-Qaeda types from Libya, Saudi Arabia etc. They want to install Sharia law there, just like in Libya.

Absolutely there are Al-Queda based rebel groups involved, that's one of the reason why there is no consensus command structure, however you are insane if your saying that the masses of civilian protesters are all actors that recently graduated from the Actors studio.

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I'm going to call it right here. The rebels themselves will probably use a chemical weapon acquired from their NATO sponsors or Libya to stage an attack on civilians and blame it on Assad, which will provide the pretext for military force.

This is the greatest piece of insanity I've seen from you since your 9/11 conspiracy arguments. I don't agree with _Q_ on the Israel argument but I think he has as good of a personal grasp on this as possible.

If the Rebels had chemical weapons they would have used them a long time ago in a so called false flag operation when their offensive had ground to a halt. Now the threat has come up when their offensive has been very succesful. They don't really need foreign troops on the ground right now as they are winning this rebellion and seizing military bases outside of the capital. The chemical weapons represent the Syrian Governements last ace in the hole and its a desparation gamble.

Right now the Rebels won't want foreign troops on the ground if they're intent on installing a radical Islamic government with leanings towards Sharia Law implementation.

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

They already tried to pull a false flag incident with the Homs massacre. The rebels killed a bunch of innocents and tried to blame it on Assad, ....but unfortunately some of the European media called their bluff and questioned it.

Please show me the links to these articles because the overwhelming evidence points to the Army and pro government Shabi militia members perpetrating the slaughter. What makes this more of a pile of BS is that the UN observers were bared from investigating this slaughter by the Syrian military to the point that the UN observers came under small arms fire. This was all reported to the UN Secretary General.

When the observers finally reached the village the bodies had been removed and witnesses stated that it was the same Shabi militia members who had carted off the bodies after the slaughter

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18352281

http://english.alarabiya.net/article...07/219098.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...iamen-massacre

I want to see these articles from you, I want to see how legitimate the reports are, because the UN reports and the above state that your full of it.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

This is Western war propaganda. I remember how they fabricated a bunch of so called evidence that Iraq was making WMD's.

Bashar Al Assad has no interest in using chemical weapons on civilians. It would be downright ######ed from a strategic standpoint. Assad is well aware that NATO/USA are drooling at the chance for military intervention and regime change. He knows they have to take him out to get at Iran.

There is no "popular uprising" against Assad. This is a western backed insurgency and many of the "rebels" are foreign fundamentalist Al-Qaeda types from Libya, Saudi Arabia etc. They want to install Sharia law there, just like in Libya.

I'm going to call it right here. The rebels themselves will probably use a chemical weapon acquired from their NATO sponsors or Libya to stage an attack on civilians and blame it on Assad, which will provide the pretext for military force.

They already tried to pull a false flag incident with the Homs massacre. The rebels killed a bunch of innocents and tried to blame it on Assad, ....but unfortunately some of the European media called their bluff and questioned it.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

This is Western war propaganda. I remember how they fabricated a bunch of so called evidence that Iraq was making WMD's.

Bashar Al Assad has no interest in using chemical weapons on civilians. It would be downright ######ed from a strategic standpoint. Assad is well aware that NATO/USA are drooling at the chance for military intervention and regime change. He knows they have to take him out to get at Iran.

There is no "popular uprising" against Assad. This is a western backed insurgency and many of the "rebels" are foreign fundamentalist Al-Qaeda types from Libya, Saudi Arabia etc. They want to install Sharia law there, just like in Libya.

I'm going to call it right here. The rebels themselves will probably use a chemical weapon acquired from their NATO sponsors or Libya to stage an attack on civilians and blame it on Assad, which will provide the pretext for military force.

They already tried to pull a false flag incident with the Homs massacre. The rebels killed a bunch of innocents and tried to blame it on Assad, ....but unfortunately some of the European media called their bluff and questioned it.

To be fair to Mikey, there is a little bit of truth here. The rebels aren't nearly as pure as they are made out to be. They've been responsibel for several incidents of high civilian casualties. There are also definitely elements of fundamentalism in their ranks.

However, to say they are Western backed is a pretty big stretch. So far most of their weapons seem to be taken from the Syrian army or provided by fundamentalist groups from outside the region, with the majority being weapons stolen from the army or brough by defectors from the Syrian army.

I'm sure the Western powers would love to have Assad step down, but they aren't at the point where they are supplying the rebels with heavy amounts of weapons yet.

[username]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

This is Western war propaganda. I remember how they fabricated a bunch of so called evidence that Iraq was making WMD's.

Bashar Al Assad has no interest in using chemical weapons on civilians. It would be downright ######ed from a strategic standpoint. Assad is well aware that NATO/USA are drooling at the chance for military intervention and regime change. He knows they have to take him out to get at Iran.

There is no "popular uprising" against Assad. This is a western backed insurgency and many of the "rebels" are foreign fundamentalist Al-Qaeda types from Libya, Saudi Arabia etc. They want to install Sharia law there, just like in Libya.

I'm going to call it right here. The rebels themselves will probably use a chemical weapon acquired from their NATO sponsors or Libya to stage an attack on civilians and blame it on Assad, which will provide the pretext for military force.

They already tried to pull a false flag incident with the Homs massacre. The rebels killed a bunch of innocents and tried to blame it on Assad, ....but unfortunately some of the European media called their bluff and questioned it.

http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/