What I can't believe is that some people are still hoping someone will buy Hostess and they'll all keep their jobs, and just blaiming the company still.
Wonder if the majority still think the union had their best interests at heart by calling the company's "bluff"?
How is this a baker's union that caused this shutdown? Do these people do any actual baking other than pushing buttons so a bunch of industrial machines squirt out a blob of oil and flour and inject it with a sugary goop? Even the Teamsters factory union was on the company's side in this trying to get the baker's union to get back in play.
Forget the NHLPA, the rest of the unions in North America should take note. This is what happens when you expect your employer to operate for a loss. If the company is not making money, neither are you. Simple as that. You can either embrace the fact that someone is making a lot more money, so that you can make a living wage, or else you can cut off your nose to spite your face. Looks like this union learned the hard way.
What I don't get about these union folk is why they resent the guy at the top so much. Like it's evil to make money. As though they expect the guy taking all the risk to work for $65,000 a year instead of making millions. Why the hell would anyone take any risk unless there's more reward than a regular job?
Unions. Why do they still exist? I bet about 17,000 of those 18,500 workers that lost their jobs are now asking the same question.
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With the increase in parody of the Canadian dollar to the US dollar, various manufacturing operations in Canada are taking huge hits. While not every plant is in the same situation, margins have significantly decreased in a lot of areas.
These plants were designed to make profits operating at very high production capacities, since they also have very high fixed costs. With production down (not shipping as much product to the US), they simply don't turn the profit they used to. Very hard to get union to understand this. My company went through a very similar situation. We shut one of our plants down for good and brought the product in from another area or Canada or the US.
I should show this thread to people here in Montana who think that Canadians are a bunch of pinkos.
Remember this is Calgary you are talking about. Probably the most right wing part of Canada. It's no surprise to see unions denigrated though. They have been on the wrong side of a constant barrage of propaganda from big business for years and for those who don't have an understanding of unions, it's effective.
As to this situation, the union looks pretty stupid as any smart union knows when to back off when the survival of it's employer is at stake. This may just be a one sided version of events though.
Remember this is Calgary you are talking about. Probably the most right wing part of Canada. It's no surprise to see unions denigrated though. They have been on the wrong side of a constant barrage of propaganda from big business for years and for those who don't have an understanding of unions, it's effective.
As to this situation, the union looks pretty stupid as any smart union knows when to back off when the survival of it's employer is at stake. This may just be a one sided version of events though.
LOL
Unions have been on the wrong side of reason for years. You can argue all you want that it's the business' fault for failing, but at the end of the day, without the business, there is nowhere for the union to work. That's what unions fail to understand. But they keep fighting for every penny, which isn't really a bad thing, but at some point, they have to acknowledge that the company needs to turn a profit. Without a profit, well, just ask former Hostess union employees what's up.
Canada is Canada to most of these yahoos around here.
We had a Hostess/Sweetheart factory shut down here in Billings today. I don't know the details of the history between the company and the union, but an article in the local paper stated that the total compensation loss for the workers since the first bankruptcy has been between 47 and 52 percent. I'm sure that would be tough for anyone to swallow. I guess they should just suck it up.
Apparently, the local union was hoping for a liquidation of the company and to roll the dice with new ownership. I guess we'll see how it turns out for them.
Canada is Canada to most of these yahoos around here.
We had a Hostess/Sweetheart factory shut down here in Billings today. I don't know the details of the history between the company and the union, but an article in the local paper stated that the total compensation loss for the workers since the first bankruptcy has been between 47 and 52 percent. I'm sure that would be tough for anyone to swallow. I guess they should just suck it up.
I'm sure I just sound like an over the top anti union guy, but did this 47-52 percent compensation loss have anything to do with the union's refusal to accept layoffs or restructuring? I mean, maybe some people could have kept their jobs (and pay structure) if the plant became more efficient. I don't know. Just a guess from the anti union side.
It's certainly possible. Like I said, I'm not positive what the history is between the company and the union. I find it difficult to believe that concessions haven't been made during the restructuring that has gone on over the past 10 years.
Like anything these days, it seems that gray area is hard to come by in these discussions. I've been on both sides of the aisle, and there is usually plenty of blame to go around.
Remember this is Calgary you are talking about. Probably the most right wing part of Canada. It's no surprise to see unions denigrated though. They have been on the wrong side of a constant barrage of propaganda from big business for years and for those who don't have an understanding of unions, it's effective.
As to this situation, the union looks pretty stupid as any smart union knows when to back off when the survival of it's employer is at stake. This may just be a one sided version of events though.
Come on now. Don't try to take the easy way out and just leave a drive by comment.
I can tell you this - I work with unions directly - possibly closer than a lot of people on their board do. Some have it right, where as others have it wrong. Keep in mind that a lot of union leadership has been staffed with the biggest and loudest rabblerousers with little to no business education.
One of the Unions I work with is millions of dollars in debt right now. In part because they pay their business agents an absolutely stupid amount (6 figures+) in part because they don't have a sustainable compensation structure. In some cases, guys with no formal business education or education at all, are placed in positions of leadership and authority within the union.
It is the reality.
Yes there are good unions, but there are a lot of bad ones too.
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Unions have been on the wrong side of reason for years. You can argue all you want that it's the business' fault for failing, but at the end of the day, without the business, there is nowhere for the union to work. That's what unions fail to understand. But they keep fighting for every penny, which isn't really a bad thing, but at some point, they have to acknowledge that the company needs to turn a profit. Without a profit, well, just ask former Hostess union employees what's up.
I don't think you read my post. I never argued it was the business' fault for failing. There are lots of reasons for a companies failure which may be beyond the companies control. What I believe in is a working relationship between management and labour and unions are a viable part of that relationship. Unions have to give and take during the good times and bad. The union I've been involved with understands this and during the 80s when our economy went south, we backed off on our demands as we wanted the companies we dealt with to be as successful as possible.
Some unions may be still in the dark ages and are adversarial but some companies are in the dark ages too.
Come on now. Don't try to take the easy way out and just leave a drive by comment.
I can tell you this - I work with unions directly - possibly closer than a lot of people on their board do. Some have it right, where as others have it wrong. Keep in mind that a lot of union leadership has been staffed with the biggest and loudest rabblerousers with little to no business education.
One of the Unions I work with is millions of dollars in debt right now. In part because they pay their business agents an absolutely stupid amount (6 figures+) in part because they don't have a sustainable compensation structure. In some cases, guys with no formal business education or education at all, are placed in positions of leadership and authority within the union.
It is the reality.
Yes there are good unions, but there are a lot of bad ones too.
You have an understanding that not all unions are bad and this is what I'm getting at. The attitude around here is to jump on anything union as evil. It's not the case and unions have raised the standard of the middle class for years and continue to do so. This is not only in wages and benefits but in job health and safety and job training.
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