Harper's comments about the Bloc

[octothorp]

Originally posted by moon@Jun 28 2005, 11:02 AM

Destroyed???

Ah, fair enough. I meant destroyed in the sense of being thoroughly whupped in the coming election and lose the ground that they had made up in recent years, not destroyed in the way that Kim Campbell destroyed the party.

[Blaster86]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction@Jun 28 2005, 03:03 PM
I personally think Harper is wrong, but I don't think it's necessary to bring up every little thing a politician does and make mountains out of mole hills.

I don't mind. Personally I love it when the media demonifies Harper since he looks like a demon.

[moon]

Originally posted by octothorp+Jun 28 2005, 04:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (octothorp @ Jun 28 2005, 04:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-moon@Jun 28 2005, 11:02 AM

Destroyed???

Ah, fair enough. I meant destroyed in the sense of being thoroughly whupped in the coming election and lose the ground that they had made up in recent years, not destroyed in the way that Kim Campbell destroyed the party. [/b][/quote]
That may be true but I still don't see them losing that much as they are not going to lose many, if any, seats in Alberta and I still think they will hold around the same number of seats in other places. They may lose seats but I really don't think it will be as bad as some think and not anyhting to describe as destroyed.

Of course it all depends on when the election is and what happens between now and then. I think that by the time there is an election a lot could happen to change the political landscape in Canada.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally posted by Mike F+Jun 28 2005, 12:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike F @ Jun 28 2005, 12:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The citizens of Quebec, who are still Canadian, have the right to send representatives to Ottawa who will represent their interests. If that's an interest that has no traction outside Quebec, well, so be it.

[/b]

All Citizens of Canada have the right to send representatives to Ottawa for their interests. You are right, but...

The BQ is looking out for the interests of only Quebecors, where as the rest of the parties are (or at least would like to be) representing all Canadians. I think a federal representative should represent a federal populous, not a provincial.
The BQ is not trying to represent all Canadians of a certain interest, but all Quebecors of a certain interest.

<!--QuoteBegin-MarchHare
Should MPs from the other seven provinces where gay marriage is already legal not be allowed to vote on C-38 either? [/quote]
The MP's of the other 7 provinces are looking out for the interests and concerns of all Canadians, not a single province.
I'm not saying that the BQ shouldn't be able to vote. All MP's should be able to vote, I just wish the BQ had MPs who were interested in Canada.

It bothers me that the province which complains so much about not being represented and not being an accepted part of Canada, is the only province with it's own Federal party. To me, this seems like a unfairly high level of representation. For all to be fair, every other province deserves a party in the house as well.

Oh yeah, can't forget the territories. them too.

[Cube Inmate]

Originally posted by MarchHare@Jun 28 2005, 01:10 PM

Should MPs from the other seven provinces where gay marriage is already legal not be allowed to vote on C-38 either?

Good question...

Presumably, the MPs from the other provinces want to be a part of the nation of Canada. It's reasonable for them to want to define the laws within their own country. The BQ doesn't want to be part of this country. Why should they be interested in affecting the law in a country they want no part of?

The only reason I can think of is that these issues are truly important to them, and they want to spread enlightenment or something. That's a possibility, I suppose. Quebecers are strange.

[kermitology]

Out of this whole mess in recent time you can come to the conclusion that you can't trust the Conservatives, you sure as shinguard can't trust the Liberals, you can't trust the NDP and the Bloc doesn't run in Alberta.. Who the fata do you vote for?

[Blaster86]

Originally posted by Winsor_Pilates@Jun 28 2005, 07:30 PM
The BQ is looking out for the interests of only Quebecors, where as the rest of the parties are (or at least would like to be) representing all Canadians. I think a federal representative should represent a federal populous, not a provincial.
The BQ is not trying to represent all Canadians of a certain interest, but all Quebecors of a certain interest.

A Federal Member of Parliament is sent to Parliament to reprsent their riding. They are not there to represent Canada. They are there to represent their specific riding. People in Quebec elect BQ to represent them, they can just as easily elect Liberals, NDP or Conservatives. They choose to have BQ represent for them. Just because they don't go outside of Quebec does not make them any less of a Federal party, if I recall the Reform party usually didn't try and go out east when it first started.

The BQ stay in Quebec because they know there is no point in wasting money and time going else where.

[Resolute 14]

Originally posted by kermitology@Jun 28 2005, 10:40 PM
Out of this whole mess in recent time you can come to the conclusion that you can't trust the Conservatives, you sure as shinguard can't trust the Liberals, you can't trust the NDP and the Bloc doesn't run in Alberta.. Who the fata do you vote for?

A stronger provincial government that will fight for Alberta?

[Reaper]

Originally posted by Snakeeye+Jun 29 2005, 07:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snakeeye @ Jun 29 2005, 07:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-kermitology@Jun 28 2005, 10:40 PM
Out of this whole mess in recent time you can come to the conclusion that you can't trust the Conservatives, you sure as shinguard can't trust the Liberals, you can't trust the NDP and the Bloc doesn't run in Alberta.. Who the fata do you vote for?

A stronger provincial government that will fight for Alberta? [/b][/quote]
We just have to make sure we don't elect one led by an alcoholic wife beater... too late.

[transplant99]

Originally posted by Reaper+Jun 29 2005, 12:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Reaper @ Jun 29 2005, 12:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

A stronger provincial government that will fight for Alberta?

We just have to make sure we don't elect one led by an alcoholic wife beater... too late. [/b][/quote]
You are calling Klein a wife-beater???

Based on what exactly?

Holy libel issues Batman.

[moon]

Originally posted by Reaper+Jun 29 2005, 09:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Reaper @ Jun 29 2005, 09:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

A stronger provincial government that will fight for Alberta?

We just have to make sure we don't elect one led by an alcoholic wife beater... too late. [/b][/quote]
Ya who wants a leader that balances the budget, pays off our debt, ensures that we are the top province economically, fights Ottawa to get Albertans what they want and deserve etc.

With a horrible man like that at the head of the province its a wonder anyone wants to continue to live in Alberta, let alone move here from other places.

[MarchHare]

As both a liberal and a Liberal, even I will attest that Klein has done a good job running the province, at least when it comes to fiscal issues.

That being said, policies that work for Alberta wouldn't necessarily be good for other provinces. How much of Klein's success was solely the result of oil prices being high? Granted, other parties (especially the NDP) would probably have spent all that extra money away rather than paying off the debt, but I'm not sure of the extent one can attribute all the great things about Alberta directly to Klein's work.

[Mike F]

Originally posted by moon@Jun 29 2005, 09:58 AM
Ya who wants a leader that balances the budget, pays off our debt, ensures that we are the top province economically, fights Ottawa to get Albertans what they want and deserve etc.

With a horrible man like that at the head of the province its a wonder anyone wants to continue to live in Alberta, let alone move here from other places.

It doesn't take a lot of political savvy to manage an economy when you're rolling in oil and the price is going through the roof.

And isn't the biggest complaint of Albertans that they're being ignored, which would mean that he's done a p*ss poor job of fighting Ottawa.

[Resolute 14]

Oil has not been at $60 a barrel since 1990...

Also, the federal government rakes in royalties as well. I suppose we can dismiss Chretien/Martin's balancing of the budget as being the product of high oil revenues.

But you are right, Klein hasnt been willing to go toe to toe with Ontario's federal government. That is one of the main things I will be hoping for in the PC's next leader.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally posted by Snakeeye@Jun 29 2005, 11:56 AM
But you are right, Klein hasnt been willing to go toe to toe with Ontario's federal government.

He prefers easier opponents like the homeless.
:wwf:

[Tron_fdc]

Originally posted by Winsor_Pilates+Jun 29 2005, 07:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Winsor_Pilates @ Jun 29 2005, 07:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Snakeeye@Jun 29 2005, 11:56 AM
But you are right, Klein hasnt been willing to go toe to toe with Ontario's federal government.

He prefers easier opponents like the homeless.
:wwf: [/b][/quote]
I would hardly call buying bus tickets to BC as toe to toe confrontation.......

[BlackEleven]

Originally posted by Cube Inmate+Jun 28 2005, 10:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cube Inmate @ Jun 28 2005, 10:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-MarchHare@Jun 28 2005, 01:10 PM

Should MPs from the other seven provinces where gay marriage is already legal not be allowed to vote on C-38 either?

Good question...

Presumably, the MPs from the other provinces want to be a part of the nation of Canada. It's reasonable for them to want to define the laws within their own country. The BQ doesn't want to be part of this country. Why should they be interested in affecting the law in a country they want no part of?

The only reason I can think of is that these issues are truly important to them, and they want to spread enlightenment or something. That's a possibility, I suppose. Quebecers are strange. [/b][/quote]
Whether the BQ wants to be part of this country or not is irrelevant, imo. The fact is that they *are* part of this country and thus entitled to just as much say as an MP from any other province.

Suppose a member of an Alberta separation party got voted into Parliment sometime in the future. Should his votes be discounted because he wants no part of Canada?

[Reaper]

Originally posted by transplant99+Jun 29 2005, 10:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (transplant99 @ Jun 29 2005, 10:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

We just have to make sure we don't elect one led by an alcoholic wife beater... too late.

You are calling Klein a wife-beater???

Based on what exactly?

Holy libel issues Batman. [/b][/quote]
Actually, there are zero libel issues here.

Mrs. Klein rarely talks about the abuse she suffered at the hands of her first husband. "It's a chapter in my book of life that is closed," she said. "I don't gain anything in life by dwelling on it."

She said she and Mr. Klein rarely discuss the abuse because it is such a painful topic.

http://www.walnet.org/csis/news/calgary_20...ndm-000303.htmlGlobe & Mail Article from March 2000

Unfortunately, the Globe & Mail website doesn't archive before 2002 so I had to search for the article.

[MarchHare]

I'm pretty sure that article refers to beatings she suffered at the hands of her first husband, not Ralph.

[Reaper]

Originally posted by moon+Jun 29 2005, 10:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (moon @ Jun 29 2005, 10:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

We just have to make sure we don't elect one led by an alcoholic wife beater... too late.

Ya who wants a leader that balances the budget, pays off our debt, ensures that we are the top province economically, fights Ottawa to get Albertans what they want and deserve etc.

With a horrible man like that at the head of the province its a wonder anyone wants to continue to live in Alberta, let alone move here from other places. [/b][/quote]
shinguard, you make it sound like poor old Ralphie was working in a coal mine to make extra money to pay off the provincial debt. Care to discuss his beatification? sheesh.

Klein was the Premier at the time the final schedule was set for paying off Alberta's provincial debt but it's not like he is the only reason that it happened. His governments cut funding to social programs and then reaped the benefits of escalating oil prices.

Yes, Alberta is debt free but at what social cost?