Final Death Row Statements

[Yasa]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I can't believe you fall for that crap, they don't execute you any more unless the evidence clearly shows you are the guilty party. Prison's are jam packed with "innocent" people and they will claim that right up to the day they die no matter how guilty they are. Probably many of them have been claiming it for so long they have themselves convinced they actually are innocent. I think if the DNA is there and the evidence is concrete then capital punishment is the way to go. None of this paying taxes out of our asses so we can house and feed some piece of crap like Michael Rafferty and give him a right to life. Screw him, he has forfeited his right to life imo.

I bet there are a few innocent people on that list. The justice and judicial system aren't perfect.

Wikipedia sheds some light on it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution

And a list of exonerated prisoners: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...th_row_inmates

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

None of this paying taxes out of our asses so we can house and feed some piece of crap like Michael Rafferty and give him a right to life. Screw him, he has forfeited his right to life imo.

Lol I hope you realize that death row inmates cost us a whole lot more than a regular inmate would.

Putting them to death costs the system a whole lot more with the multiple appeals they use.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Yasa

I bet there are a few innocent people on that list. The justice and judicial system aren't perfect.

Wikipedia sheds some light on it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution

And a list of exonerated prisoners: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_exonerated_death_row_inmates

Doubtful, with todays technology and our progress in DNA it just doesn't happen anymore since the early 2000's. Even in Texas now if the evidence is not concrete then you are not getting death row. It certainly did happen in the past but not anymore, if you are on death row you belong there.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Iginla

Lol I hope you realize that death row inmates cost us a whole lot more than a regular inmate would.

Putting them to death costs the system a whole lot more with the multiple appeals they use.

No, it doesn't. You don't think life sentence convicts also do multiple appeals? You bet they do, Rafferty is getting one right now. You are trying to say a guy hitting death row in 2009 and is executed in 2012 costs more than a guy who gets life in prison in 2009 and lives for another 30-40 years behind bars? Your math does not add up there my friend.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

No, it doesn't. You don't think life sentence convicts also do multiple appeals? You bet they do, Rafferty is getting one right now. You are trying to say a guy hitting death row in 2009 and is executed in 2012 costs more than a guy who gets life in prison in 2009 and lives for another 30-40 years behind bars? Your math does not add up there my friend.

This isn't my math, it's been studied to death and it is a fact. Death rown inmates cost the system more than regular life sentence prisoners.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

1) Does it cost more to sentence someone to execution than to sentence them to permanent imprisonment?
Yes. At every step of the process, the death penalty costs more.

• Death penalty trials cost an estimated $1.1 million more than a trial where the District Attorney seeks a sentence of permanent imprisonment. Unlike post-conviction costs funded by the state budget, trial expenses are borne largely from county budgets.
• Housing on death row costs at least$90,000 more per inmate per year than housing in the general prison population, where those sentenced to permanent imprisonment are housed.
• Funding for post-conviction prosecution and defense attorneys costs $85,000 per death row inmate per year. Inmates sentenced to permanent imprisonment are not afforded mandatory appeals.

As of 2009, California taxpayers spend an estimated $117 million each year at the post-conviction level seeking the execution of the 680 inmates on death row.
Death penalty trials cost local taxpayers an additional $20 million per year, at the current death sentencing rate of 20 sentences per year.
In total, the death penalty system cost California taxpayers $137 million each year, the California Commission on the Fair Administration of Justice found, whereas permanent imprisonment for all those currently on death row would cost just $11 million.

[Yasa]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Doubtful, with todays technology and our progress in DNA it just doesn't happen anymore since the early 2000's. Even in Texas now if the evidence is not concrete then you are not getting death row. It certainly did happen in the past but not anymore, if you are on death row you belong there.

Unless you know the details of every case, then it's tough to say that technology and DNA have proven every conviction. By that standard, my opinion isn't any more valid though. I'm going to say based on probability that there are some innocent people currently on death row, and as the wikipedia article showed at least 15 since 1992 that have been exonerated which leads me to hazard a guess that some innocent people have died within the last 20 years.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

No, it doesn't. You don't think life sentence convicts also do multiple appeals? You bet they do, Rafferty is getting one right now. You are trying to say a guy hitting death row in 2009 and is executed in 2012 costs more than a guy who gets life in prison in 2009 and lives for another 30-40 years behind bars? Your math does not add up there my friend.

You may want to read this

Assessment of Costs by Judge Arthur Alarcon and Prof. Paula Mitchell (2011, updated 2012)

The authors concluded that the cost of the death penalty in California has totaled over $4 billion since 1978:

• $1.94 billion--Pre-Trial and Trial Costs
• $925 million--Automatic Appeals and State Habeas Corpus Petitions
• $775 million--Federal Habeas Corpus Appeals
• $1 billion--Costs of Incarceration

The authors calculated that, if the Governor commuted the sentences of those remaining on death row to life without parole, it would result in an immediate savings of $170 million per year, with a savings of $5 billion over the next 20 years

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Iginla

This isn't my math, it's been studied to death and it is a fact. Death rown inmates cost the system more than regular life sentence prisoners.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

1) Does it cost more to sentence someone to execution than to sentence them to permanent imprisonment?
Yes. At every step of the process, the death penalty costs more.

• Death penalty trials cost an estimated $1.1 million more than a trial where the District Attorney seeks a sentence of permanent imprisonment. Unlike post-conviction costs funded by the state budget, trial expenses are borne largely from county budgets.
• Housing on death row costs at least$90,000 more per inmate per year than housing in the general prison population, where those sentenced to permanent imprisonment are housed.
• Funding for post-conviction prosecution and defense attorneys costs $85,000 per death row inmate per year. Inmates sentenced to permanent imprisonment are not afforded mandatory appeals.

As of 2009, California taxpayers spend an estimated $117 million each year at the post-conviction level seeking the execution of the 680 inmates on death row.
Death penalty trials cost local taxpayers an additional $20 million per year, at the current death sentencing rate of 20 sentences per year.
In total, the death penalty system cost California taxpayers $137 million each year, the California Commission on the Fair Administration of Justice found, whereas permanent imprisonment for all those currently on death row would cost just $11 million.

So you find an anti-death penalty site and you state it as fact? Again, the math does not add up no matter how they spin it. It is not remotely believable that a guy who spends 10 years on death row costs us more then a guy who spends 30-40 years on a life sentence. It doesn't add up! How do these death penalty inmates cost so much more? Did you know we have aliens here and the government is just covering it up? It is fact too.
www.ufoinsight.com/

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Dion

You may want to read this



http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

Rebuttal
http://napavalleyregister.com/news/o...a4bcf887a.html

For a state teetering on the brink of bankruptcy, the idea of saving a billion dollars is appealing. But there is no reliable evidence that repealing the death penalty will save money.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

So you find an anti-death penalty site and you state it as fact? Again, the math does not add up no matter how they spin it. It is not remotely believable that a guy who spends 10 years on death row costs us more then a guy who spends 30-40 years on a life sentence. It doesn't add up! How do these death penalty inmates cost so much more? Did you know we have aliens here and the government is just covering it up? It is fact too.
www.ufoinsight.com/

Just admit you were wrong and move on. Death row inmates cost more, it really is a fact and California politicians are using that reasoning to change the death penalty laws.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Iginla

Just admit you were wrong and move on. Death row inmates cost more, it really is a fact and California politicians are using that reasoning to change the death penalty laws.

Just admit you were wrong and move on, read my last post before this one, it shows how California will save nothing if they change that law. Your math is no more fact then mine so stop throwing the word fact into this when it clearly is not. Just because one person writes a report on a study they did does not make the results fact. I really hope you do not read the Inquirer.

[dissentowner]

How about I spin it another way. Suppose I give you an extra cost for the death penalty over life in prison. Studies have shown that the death penalty deters murders by up to 5-75 murders a year. So what is better in your eyes? Saving some money or preventing 5-75 murders?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Doubtful, with todays technology and our progress in DNA it just doesn't happen anymore since the early 2000's. Even in Texas now if the evidence is not concrete then you are not getting death row. It certainly did happen in the past but not anymore, if you are on death row you belong there.

It happens.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/artic...me-1149846.php

http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/dna-mistakes-125732383.html

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/dna-samples...a-mistake.html

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

It happens.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/artic...me-1149846.php

http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/dna-mistakes-125732383.html

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/dna-samples...a-mistake.html

Ok, but where in any of those reports did somebody end up with a death row sentence? I did not see any and eventualy they did catch the mistake, otherwise these reports would not be there.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Ok, but where in any of those reports did somebody end up with a death row sentence? I did not see any and eventualy they did catch the mistake, otherwise these reports would not be there.

Well, there always the possibility of mistakes not found because they didn't try too, and then of course the very real possibility of planted DNA evidence by dirty cops.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

How about I spin it another way. Suppose I give you an extra cost for the death penalty over life in prison. Studies have shown that the death penalty deters murders by up to 5-75 murders a year. So what is better in your eyes? Saving some money or preventing 5-75 murders?

Studies? Which studies?

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/22/us...ted=all&src=pm

http://tech.mit.edu/V130/N53/normandin.html

These statistics can be broken down even further. In 2009, the average murder rate for states with a death penalty was 4.9 per 100,000 people, while the average murder rate for states without a death penalty was only 2.8.

Costs.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphi...death-penalty/

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/03/27...state-budgets/

[Yasa]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

How about I spin it another way. Suppose I give you an extra cost for the death penalty over life in prison. Studies have shown that the death penalty deters murders by up to 5-75 murders a year. So what is better in your eyes? Saving some money or preventing 5-75 murders?

What study? This says it's inconclusive and this says an average of 18.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

How about I spin it another way. Suppose I give you an extra cost for the death penalty over life in prison. Studies have shown that the death penalty deters murders by up to 5-75 murders a year. So what is better in your eyes? Saving some money or preventing 5-75 murders?

Murder rates in Canada have gone up and down in virtual lockstep with U.S. rates over the years. Yet Canada has had no executions since 1962. In fact, during the period just after the United States reinstated the death penalty in 1976, murder rates remained high in the United States while declining in Canada.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2012/09/12/481...#storylink=cpy

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/09/12/481...-evidence.html

[doctajones428]

You kill someone on purpose, well... a life for a life

[Dion]

Originally Posted by cKy

I dunno, I read one where the guy is getting killed because he took a flashlight to an 11-month old and killed him. Sounded like he was the barbaric one.

"To take a life when a life has been lost is revenge, not justice." - Desmond Tutu

"I've been haunted by the men I was asked to execute in the name of the state of Florida. This is premeditated, carefully thought out ceremonial killing." - Ron McAndrew, was a prison warden in Florida

"It can be argued that rapists deserve to be raped, that mutilators deserve to be mutilated. Most societies, however, refrain from responding in this way because the punishment is not only degrading to those on whom it is imposed, but it is also degrading to the society that engages in the same behavior as the criminals."
- Stephen Bright, human rights attorney