anyone else embarrased?

[Table 5]

Originally posted by arsenal@Jun 23 2005, 01:47 PM
Leave the decision up to the people to make.

The majority of the people have decided they hate smoking and dont want to be around it.

[transplant99]

Originally posted by Table 5+Jun 23 2005, 06:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Table 5 @ Jun 23 2005, 06:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-arsenal@Jun 23 2005, 01:47 PM
Leave the decision up to the people to make.

The majority of the people have decided they hate smoking and dont want to be around it. [/b][/quote]
So dont go to establishments that serve smokers.

Since the majority dont smoke..the majority of establishments wont allow it, meaning far more choices for non-smokers than others.

Seems like a fair way to do it to me. But in typical PC fashion...everyone has to abide by one rule for those that dont smoke.

Why not allow someone to open up a bar and/or restaurant that caters specifically to smokers?

As I understand it...you CANNOT do that in most places with these arcane laws.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

in most Nova Scotian municipalities if you have a seperate smoking room (in Sydney with seperate ventilation, Halifax just needs another room as far as I know) then you can let people smoke indoors.

I don't see a problem with that.

[RatherDashing]

Originally posted by habernac@Jun 22 2005, 09:39 PM
Heck, even when I smoked I wouldn't have minded the fact that I could actually breathe when I went to the bar/pub. Does the food and beverage industry think that the other 75% of the population don't go out as well? Heck, you might get some new customers!! California has had a ban well over 10 years now and guess what? They still have bars and restaurants there!

But can't they open bars right now that ban smoking? If this indeed would attract more customers, then why don't these bars ban smoking already? I'm with transplant, leave the decision to the consumer.

[flamefan74]

I have never understood why they would wait until 2008 to enforce a smoking ban. Just get it over with and ban it already. Like it's going to kill the smokers to have a meal without having a cigarette right before and after.

[AFireInside]

I'm not a smoker, I've never been a smoker and I'm going to have to agree with Transplant on this one as well..

[Ozy_Flame]

I am a casual smoker, and I have to say that I would be in support of this bylaw if they repealed the patio anti-smoking law. That just makes no sense. You can smoke inside and kill people around you but outside it's a hazard? Regardless of what's right and wrong, people are going to be smoking, and I don't see right-wing Alberta kicking the habit for years. Just deal with it in the best manner possible.

[habernac]

It just sucks that if someone like me wants to go out and catch a game at the pub I have to breathe the stuff. I play in a pool league as well and we have no choice but to play in the smoky bars. 2 more years and I won't have that worry I suppose. Still pretty sad that we're so freaking far behind here. Who the fata can afford to smoke now anyway?

[calculoso]

I can't wait for the bylaw to come into effect either.

I've been inconvienienced for my whole life by smokers.. it's their turn now.

I'd love to go to bars and pubs that were non-smoking.. but they are really few and far between. Plus, even if I do want to go to them, most of my friends don't because they dont' have the right "reputation".. whatever that means.

[shoestring]

I just don't get the argument. If you want to meet your friends at a drinking non-smoking establishment,go there.Can't find one ?
Start one.You tell me it would be popular,you gave me stats,open it.
I will help you write the business plan.

Because those "idiots" running bars right now think that smokers drink ,does that make them profitable? Are they all missing something?
Is that true? Or do smokers just drink more? I think that the free market will figure it out. Gee the Lido Cafe went non-smoking and if they figured it out and remained open maybe some high falutin bar might try it.
Less government =more options is what I contend.

Ignore this I try to stay out off legal or political matters or dealing with a govermental body.

[Flames89]

I am a weekend smoker. Full-time drinking smoker.

The fact that Calgary has it all reversed is stunning! I really like not being able to smoke in bars, the benefits FAR outweigh the negatives.

However, not being able to smoke on the patio is just stupid and innane. Didn't they pass this legislature so that minors are not around smoking (patios are next to the street where kids are)? If they want to get rid of smoking in bars, they better allow it back on patios - as otherwise the bars will have to allow several tens of people outside to smoke on the street.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

I'm not a smoker, never have been - never will. I don't preach you shouldn't smoke, but the first time I see a friend smoking I'll be the guy that says "you know those will kill you right? Ok, your choice, just letting you know" and I'll never mention it again (awaiting the smack from smokers, but if you tell me drinking will cause liver disease just once ensuring that I'm aware, I'll respect that).

However not smoking outdoors is a bit backwards IMO, the way it is here, as long as you're 16-25 feet away from the entrance you're ok, and even then it's never enforced, if your smoking by the door I don't mind holding my breath for 3.2 seconds as I walk past, if it's bad (just don't throw your butts on the ground, but that's another story).

You SHOULD be allowed to smoke on patios, saying you can't smoke outside is a bit lofty, even from this hard line, anti-smoking advocate

[Claeren]

Originally posted by transplant99+Jun 23 2005, 04:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (transplant99 @ Jun 23 2005, 04:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

The majority of the people have decided they hate smoking and dont want to be around it.

So dont go to establishments that serve smokers.

Since the majority dont smoke..the majority of establishments wont allow it, meaning far more choices for non-smokers than others.

Seems like a fair way to do it to me. But in typical PC fashion...everyone has to abide by one rule for those that dont smoke.

Why not allow someone to open up a bar and/or restaurant that caters specifically to smokers?

As I understand it...you CANNOT do that in most places with these arcane laws. [/b][/quote]
I agree IF people in smoking establishments HAVE to smoke.

Right now establishments can allow smoking by a minority, annoy a majority, but still do business with both.

If only smokers are allowed into smoking establishments it evens the playing field.


People should need a pass to get in and to get the pass they pay extra healthcare premiums as a 'certified smoker'. Seems pretty fair...



On a side note, the smoking laws have as much to do with workplace safety as anything else. The government is obliged to protect workers, if they don't THEY are liable for damages... which annoys you more transplant - annoying PC laws or annoying tax payer funded lawsuit settlements?


Claeren.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally posted by shoestring@Jun 24 2005, 01:13 AM
I just don't get the argument. If you want to meet your friends at a drinking non-smoking establishment,go there.Can't find one ?
Start one.You tell me it would be popular,you gave me stats,open it.
I will help you write the business plan.

Because those "idiots" running bars right now think that smokers drink ,does that make them profitable? Are they all missing something?
Is that true? Or do smokers just drink more? I think that the free market will figure it out. Gee the Lido Cafe went non-smoking and if they figured it out and remained open maybe some high falutin bar might try it.
Less government =more options is what I contend.

Ignore this I try to stay out off legal or political matters or dealing with a govermental body.

The point is that if a bar opens up and is non smoking, they have effectively eliminated 25% of the poplutaion from their customer base, so they aren't going to do it, and the 75% of us who smoke will have no choice but to go to a smoking bar.

People that argue that banning smoking will cost bars money are f*****g stupid. How many people do you know that would say "Gee I want to go out and smoke a bunch tonight"? Probalby none, so I'm guessing the smokers are still gonna go.

Making bars decide to either allow smoking, or alienate 1/4 of the population makes it unfair for those who want to open or go to a nonsmoking environment. Since it is a health issure that affects not only the person doing it (As booze is something that I freely accept isn't good for me), but everyone around them, and the government is footing the bill for whatever that smoke causes, why shouldn't they be able to say you can't smoke in a crowded bar with hundreds of other people?

[evman150]

Hard to believe some cities still haven't put this law in place.

Victoria was the first city in Canada to adopt this by-law, in 1999 I believe.

[Hakan]

I can't believe how behind the times Calgary is. As you probably know I've been living in Vancouver for the past 5 years and they have no smoking anywhere indoors here and it is so nice. Whenever I come back to Calgary I can't help but be disgusted with the smoking in the bar. My favourite hole, the Ship, is a disgusting toxic waste site with the low ceilings and all the smoking.

Blech!

Time to write your alderperson to change the by-law.

[RatherDashing]

Originally posted by Bring_Back_Shantz+Jun 24 2005, 07:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Bring_Back_Shantz @ Jun 24 2005, 07:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-shoestring@Jun 24 2005, 01:13 AM
I just don't get the argument. If you want to meet your friends at a drinking non-smoking establishment,go there.Can't find one ?
Start one.You tell me it would be popular,you gave me stats,open it.
I will help you write the business plan.

Because those "idiots" running bars right now think that smokers drink ,does that make them profitable? Are they all missing something?
Is that true? Or do smokers just drink more? I think that the free market will figure it out. Gee the Lido Cafe went non-smoking and if they figured it out and remained open maybe some high falutin bar might try it.
Less government =more options is what I contend.

Ignore this I try to stay out off legal or political matters or dealing with a govermental body.

The point is that if a bar opens up and is non smoking, they have effectively eliminated 25% of the poplutaion from their customer base, so they aren't going to do it, and the 75% of us who smoke will have no choice but to go to a smoking bar.

People that argue that banning smoking will cost bars money are f*****g stupid. How many people do you know that would say "Gee I want to go out and smoke a bunch tonight"? Probalby none, so I'm guessing the smokers are still gonna go.

Making bars decide to either allow smoking, or alienate 1/4 of the population makes it unfair for those who want to open or go to a nonsmoking environment. Since it is a health issure that affects not only the person doing it (As booze is something that I freely accept isn't good for me), but everyone around them, and the government is footing the bill for whatever that smoke causes, why shouldn't they be able to say you can't smoke in a crowded bar with hundreds of other people? [/b][/quote]
So if non-smoking bars will be such a goldmine, why aren't you opening one?

[shoestring]

undefinedThe point is that if a bar opens up and is non smoking, they have effectively eliminated 25% of the poplutaion from their customer base, so they aren't going to do it, and the 75% of us who smoke will have no choice but to go to a smoking bar.
So you lose 25% of your customer base.You have 75%.
Alienate the 25% ,they can go down the street to a smoking bar.
And they will.No problem.

People that argue that banning smoking will cost bars money are f*****g stupid.
Start a non-smoking bar. Like ratherdashing says if it's a goldmine what would hold you back?

Could it be that smokers drink more?Or more often? Ask some bar owners what they think.I have a friend that will open his second bar soon and he gets no complaints from non-smokers and lots of requests for ashtrays.

Being a lounge lizard for a lot of years I rarely find myself sitting beside non-smokers.Not very scientific but real.
Like I said I will help you start this business. If you can find these compelling stats that prove it will be profitable there is no reason not too. Niche marketing is right up my alley.It seems odd that nobody else is moving on it however ,which usually means that the entrepreneur is having a tough time justifying his research.

[flames_1987]

I lost loads of respect for Jerry Forbes when he went on a rant about anyone against Calgary waiting till 2008. He bashed one guy when he said he wanted to take his son out for a beer on his 18th birthdaym and not have to be by all the smoke, that his son was already hurting his body by drinking.


This really has been getting to me in the last few days more then ever. Me and a few bud's went to watch the spurs/pistons game 7 and with not many open seats just decided to take what we could. We then had to sit by a number of heavy smokers, and combine that with the game being 3 hours, you leave the bar smelling and feeling pretty bad.

I have nothing against smokers what so ever, but Calgary defintley needs to do something instead of just waiting.

[shoestring]

Jerry Forbes owns his own bar ,tell him to put his money where his mouth is.