Canada Breaking Diplomatic Ties With Iran

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

Why would you get roasted for that? There are plenty of '10 mile strips of land' in the world and they chose the one that would piss people off the most. I'd fight for Iran before Israel.

There are so many things wrong with that sentence I don't even know where to start, just...wow.

As for fighting for Iran, that sounds like a really good idea. They'd more then likely take you for a spy though, and would then likely start torturing you for Canadian/Isreali war secrets. Or maybe they would just chop off your head...

[kipperfan]

As for the topic at hand, I think Transplant has probably hit the nail on the head in saying this move has a lot more to do with supporting Israel then the US. With that being said "something" must have happened to set this in motion, that or Harper is getting some inside info from Israel that a strike/war could start sooner rather then later.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

I may get roasted for this but I am still on the fence if one drop of Canadian blood is worth it for Israel.

I hope you don't get roasted. It is sickening how Israel gets to have the human rights record it does and still gets a free pass. But in general public you verbalize support for Palestine, you're a anti semite.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

I hope you don't get roasted. It is sickening how Israel gets to have the human rights record it does and still gets a free pass. But in general public you verbalize support for Palestine, you're a anti semite.

I suppose that is true if the guy from Palestine you are supporting is an anti-semite. Calling for the destruction of Israel is by definition anti-semite.

[MarchHare]

Calling for the destruction of Israel is by definition anti-semite.

No it's not. Being hateful towards Jewish people is the definition of being an anti-Semite. Somebody can be anti-Semitic while still supporting the existence of Israel. Likewise, somebody can not be anti-Semitic while still having very legitimate criticisms of the human rights record of the Israeli government.

[Rerun]

Doesn't bother me in the least. Why on earth would we even WANT to have diplomatic ties with an oppressive, anti-semetic, terrorist by proxy, regime such as Iran?

Good move, I say.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Doesn't bother me in the least. Why on earth would we even WANT to have diplomatic ties with an oppressive, anti-semetic, terrorist by proxy, regime such as Iran?

Well, the idea is that by having dialogue you can perhaps make them less oppressive, less anti-semitic, and less terrorist by proxy, or at least look out for your own citizens who may be travelling in the area. Sounds like that wasn't happening though.

[Flamenspiel]

These threads always seem to bring out the hidden agendas, anyway for me the NDP foreign affairs critic coming out against closing the embassy clinches it as a good decision to shut the embassy. The idea that they could form a government one day is an even bigger threat to Canada's interests.

All other things being equal, its an east excuse to cut the budget of the foreign affairs department.

[Frequitude]

What took so long?

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

I hope you don't get roasted. It is sickening how Israel gets to have the human rights record it does and still gets a free pass. But in general public you verbalize support for Palestine, you're a anti semite.

Here we go again...

So what is it about Israeli human rights you don't like? Or are you just going to make a slanderous statement? For sure, if you just sling mud at a nation you are probably going to look like someone that does not like them.

Israel does it best to support every single race and religion at it's own risk, surrounded by nations that seemingly hate everyone else.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Here we go again...

So what is it about Israeli human rights you don't like? Or are you just going to make a slanderous statement? For sure, if you just sling mud at a nation you are probably going to look like someone that does not like them.

Israel does it best to support every single race and religion at it's own risk, surrounded by nations that seemingly hate everyone else.

Its recent immigration changes would not support that. It's becoming somewhat xenophobic. Not Jason Kenney xenophobic, but close.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by transplant99

A list of reasons

— Iran refuses to comply with the United Nations resolutions pertaining to its nuclear program
— Increasing military assistance to the regime of Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad
— Iran shelters and "materially supports" terrorist groups
— Routine threats to the existence of the state of Israel
— Repeated violations of the Vienna Convention which governs diplomatic relations between most countries of the world
— "Racist anti-Semitic rhetoric and incitement to genocide," Baird said.
— Worst violators of human rights.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/09/07...mbassy-in-iran

To add a couple more points to your list:

- They beat, tortured, raped, and executed a Canadian citizen, because she accidentally took a photograph of a prison while on vacation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zahra_Kazemi

- They have more Canadian citizens and permanent residents on death row:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamid_Ghassemi-Shall
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saeed_Malekpour

-They have another Canadian citizen sentenced to life in prison for blogging negatively about the shi-ite faith:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hossein_Derakhshan

- The Iranian government stood back and watched while angry mobs attaked the UK and Danish embassies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ml18DDMblUk

-Routine execution of minorities, homosexuals, and political disdents, including minors.

In the end, withdrawal of the embassies is really only a ceremonial move. Canada hasn't had an embassador in Iran since the murder of Zahra Kazemi, and rightfully so..

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Its recent immigration changes would not support that. It's becoming somewhat xenophobic. Not Jason Kenney xenophobic, but close.

Can you please explain with some details how Israel's recent immigration changes support the accusation that they have a terrible human rights record?

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Can you please explain with some details how Israel's recent immigration changes support the accusation that they have a terrible human rights record?

That they are arresting, and returning asylum seekers from legitimately dangerous scenarios for one.

http://www.care2.com/causes/israel-p...law-video.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/18/wo...pagewanted=all

http://www.pila.ie/mobile/choose-lay...sylum-seekers/

Etc etc.

[Magnum PEI]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

There are so many things wrong with that sentence I don't even know where to start, just...wow.

Such as...

My ancestors used to live in Olduvai Gorge, I want to set up a new state there! I'll use terrorism and my people's influence on the British government to do it.

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by Wormius

That they are arresting, and returning asylum seekers from legitimately dangerous scenarios for one.

Just so I have this straight - Israel is the bad guy and has an awful human rights record for trying to work out their refugee system (clearly there is a bit of debate going on), just like Canada, Australia, and the US (isn't Boarder Patrol a favorite reality show down there?) are trying to work out those systems.

But you have no trouble giving a pass to Egypt, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Syria, the PA, etc..those refugees (and not all of them are) are running to Israel for a reason - rule of law, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and (most likely) the #1 economy in the Mid-East.

Israel has it's problems and is not the most sainted country on Earth. Criticizing Israeli government actions/policies, or judicial rulings is not antisemitism. Questioning Israel's right to exist, or exist as a Jewish state is not antisemitism, but is close to Jew hatred. Accusing the world controlling cabal of Zionists of using their influence on the UK or US to get what they want is antisemitism.

Accusing Israel of being one of the worst human rights offenders in the world and of being an apartheid state is either ignorance or the accuser has an axe to grind.

As for Canada's move regarding Iran, there is no point or gain for Canada to close the embassy & expel diplomats just to show support for Israel now.
If you believe that Israel will strike before the US elections, then Israel wants Canada's support after the fact, not a stronger diplomatic stance before hand.
If anything this move may delay any Israel action - Canada can say they are tightening the diplomatic pressure, encourage other countries to follow, and ask Israel to wait and see (not what the hawk-like, war-mongering, blood-lusting Netanyahu government wants, right?).

I think it has more to do with Iran's support of Syria (Baird was just there in a high profile way) and concern that the Canadian embassy is next in line for what happened to the UK embassy in Tehran last year.

The articles I read noted the support of the Iranian Canadian community, and I am sure showing support for Israel is not tops on their list.

(BTW - Jews did not get together in a room in 1946 and flip a coin - heads Uganda, tails Trans-Jordan - and then coerce the UK and US into letting them have their way.

There has been a Jewish Community in Israel & Jerusalem for over 3000 years. Jews have prayed everyday facing Israel & Jerusalem for over 3000 years. Israel has been the Jewish homeland for over 3000 years)

[T@T]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Citation needed.

I'd never hold up Iran as a bastion of human rights, but they're not the bottom-of-the-barrel worst offenders. According to this source, they were 10th worst in 2012, with citizens of Iraq, Yemen, North Korea, Pakistan, Myanmar, Afghanistan, Somalia, Congo, and Sudan having a greater risk of suffering a human rights violation.

That's great company , the only country on that list with a resemblance of being a "real" nation is Pakistan and they wanted to kill a 14 year old girl recently for blasphemy of their good book.

Iran is a crap show for human rights.

-Have a little affair at work because your partner doesn't like you anymore - expect 200 citizens to throw rocks at your head until your bloodied and dead.

-Your Gay and get caught - expect to hang by the neck from a crane with an anti-gay sign strapped on you until you stop moving.(they like to watch you suffer instead of a quick broken neck hanging)

-Cause a riot because your pissed off? - yes sir...your dead in a day.

-Steal an apple at the market because you haven't eaten in 3 days - you loose that hand.

I could go on and on. Iran is brutal...period

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

Such as...

My ancestors used to live in Olduvai Gorge, I want to set up a new state there! I'll use terrorism and my people's influence on the British government to do it.

And where you live now likely was land the natives think they owned and we took.

Perfect world - The lands belong to everyone as were all brothers and sisters "Olduvai Gorge"

Non perfect world - you loose a battle/war...you lost! and sometimes it means land

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

Such as...

My ancestors used to live in Olduvai Gorge, I want to set up a new state there! I'll use terrorism and my people's influence on the British government to do it.

So who were your ancestors? .... Homo habilis? Parnthropus boisei? Homo erectus? or Homo sapiens?
Because frankly if they weren't Homo habilis they probably took it from somebody else.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Citation needed.

I'd never hold up Iran as a bastion of human rights, but they're not the bottom-of-the-barrel worst offenders. According to this source, they were 10th worst in 2012, with citizens of Iraq, Yemen, North Korea, Pakistan, Myanmar, Afghanistan, Somalia, Congo, and Sudan having a greater risk of suffering a human rights violation.

On a side note, I find it odd that this list does not include Syria in the top 10. How reputable is a list that doesn't include Bashar and the Syrian goverment?
How many more protestors does Bashar have to kill before he makes the list? Right now he's somewhere between 9000 to 11000....
Or maybe being murdered by your own government isn't classified as a civil rights abuse?