Iraq war resister Kimberly Rivera ordered deported to U.S.

[Rerun]

To better put this in respective that Canadians can possibly relate too...

Lets say she was Canadian and volunteered to join the Canadian Army in 2006, received a large signing bonus, and after the military has spent thousands of dollars training her she was sent to Afghanistan with the rest of her unit. After being in Afghanistan for 3 months she decided that she's changed her mind and doesn't want to be in the army any more because she could get killed.... so she comes back to Canada on a 2 week leave and goes AWOL and deserts her unit, her regiment, her country.

Should she be allowed to carry on with her life as if none of this ever happened while someone back in Afghanistan does her duty (which she volunteered for and was paid for) in her place?

[undercoverbrother]

Rerun, you seem to be a religous poster, does this qoute from the article change you thoughts:

According to federal court documents, Rivera began a process of prayer and soul-searching while serving in Iraq, where she came to the conclusion the military was careless about creating civilian casualties. Eventually she concluded the war was incompatible with the teachings of the Bible.

[You Need a Thneed]

Double post

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

I didn't say she should just go free.

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Fair enough.

Then what do you think would be appropraite punishment?

I responded at the bottom of page one, you must have missed it.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Rerun, you seem to be a religous poster, does this qoute from the article change you thoughts:

I'm not really. I haven't been to church in years and I'm somewhat ambivilent towards organized religion.

As far as your quote... I suspect she probably came up with that excuse because it certainly sounds better than "Don't send me back please... I could get killed over there."

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Fair enough.

Then what do you think would be appropraite punishment?

A fine, community service, homeland military work, or some combination of those.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

A fine, community service, homeland military work, or some combination of those.

So what about those overseas that are not happy about being there, but suck it up everyday and keep going..........

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Rerun

I'm not really. I haven't been to church in years and I'm somewhat ambivilent towards organized religion.

As far as your quote... I suspect she probably came up with that excuse because it certainly sounds better than "Don't send me back please... I could get killed over there."

Oops sorry no offence

I agree, with the second part of your post.

[octothorp]

I can sympathize with her position, but at the same time I think it just emphasizes the need for anyone entering the military to do some serious soul-searching beforehand about what they're prepared to do, what they're prepared to accept and go along with and witness others do. The time for asking those questions is not after you've been deployed.

And on a practical level, I think Canada needs to keep relatively strict requirements about refugee status. We shouldn't be seen as the default go-to destination for refugee claimants. I do think that we would be well-served by speeding up the whole process. Five years is too long to just have potential refugees living in Canada and putting down roots only to be deported.

[CaptainCrunch]

I have to put my two cents in because what this woman did drives me up the wall.

She entered what is basically a wartime military, she was well informed that there was a chance that she would be reassigned to a combat area where yes she could be hurt, killed, captured, see terrible things.

She can't use ignorance as an excuse, nor can she use religion as an excuse, when your in the military your first duty is not to yourself, its to your commander in chief, your unit, and your comrades.

If she had problems with what she was doing over there then she could have filed a concienous objector clame which was ammended in 2006.

Basically if she was concerned about what the military was doing over there in terms of the mission or civilian casualties she could file concientious objector status at that point her claims are invesigated and a decision is made in terms of reassignment or and up to administrative seperation from the military. However you have to make a pretty much provable iron clad case because a false claim is looked on harshly.

U.S. Army policy for dealing with military personnel who assert a conscientious objection to military combat is set forth in a newly updated Army regulation (pdf).
Criteria for likely approval or rejection of a conscientious objection claim are described. Claims that are insincere or “based on objection to a certain war” will “not be favorably considered.”
The Regulation accepts the reality of conscientious objection with due respect.
“Care must be exercised not to deny the existence of beliefs simply because those beliefs are incompatible with one’s own,” it states.
In any case, “The burden of establishing a claim of conscientious objection as grounds for separation or assignment to noncombatant training and service is on the applicant.”
See “Conscientious Objection,” Army Regulation 600-43, 21 August 2006.

http://www.fas.org/blog/secrecy/2006...ious_obje.html

http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/ar600-43.pdf

Basically there is no way that the Military would want her back, she has proven to be untrustworthy and unreliable, but they can't let her go without getting their pound of flesh from her as an example to others.

Oh and to anyone who says, how would she know about the above regs. All she needs to do is approach her unit commander and bring up her problems with her duty, that officer is then obligated investigate her status and her claims.

As for her refugee claims, she has no standing due to the crime that she committed in the U.S. military, its invalid because she didn't pursue the proper steps before she fled.


Anyways that's all I wanted to say.

[Rerun]

6 months has gone by already?

[CaptainCrunch]

Nope called it a one time re-engagement because of the topic at hand where I believe that the key point is being missed.

[Flash Walken]

Deserting voluntary military service is serious.

There are enough ways to escape active duty that make me less sympathetic towards her and her situation.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Should have thought of that before signing on with the military. Too bad so sad.

As a US resident I think you're well aware of the incredibly underhanded manner of military recruitment in the country.

Edit: Not saying the desertion is justified, I just really don't like a lot of the stuff I see in terms of military recruitment.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Nope called it a one time re-engagement because of the topic at hand where I believe that the key point is being missed.

Isn't that the plot of The Expendables?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

There are enough ways to escape active duty that make me less sympathetic towards her and her situation.

can you expand on that please?

[MelBridgeman]

Did she pound out two more kids in Canada hoping it would help her cause?

If so, quality broad.

[FlamesAddiction]

This is a tough one for me.

On one hand, she did break the laws of her country, and our closest ally... we can't be seen as promoting that by sheltering her, but on the other hand, I sympathize with her situation. I guess she should face the music, but I hope that if she gets a jail sentence, she can serve it here and then return here to live. It's not like she is a dangerous criminal.

My father was a military deserter and was granted asylum in Canada, and for that I am thankful. It was a bit different though as he was conscripted and served in a corrupt and inhumane communist dictatorship.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

This is a tough one for me.

On one hand, she did break the laws of her country, and our closest ally... we can't be seen as promoting that by sheltering her, but on the other hand, I sympathize with her situation. I guess she should face the music, but I hope that if she gets a jail sentence, she can serve it here and then return here to live. It's not like she is a dangerous criminal.

My father was a military deserter and was granted asylum in Canada, and for that I am thankful. It was a bit different though as he was conscripted and served in a corrupt and inhumane communist dictatorship.

Your father is a huge different situation.

I don't think she should be allowed back once she does her time.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by valo403

As a US resident I think you're well aware of the incredibly underhanded manner of military recruitment in the country.

Edit: Not saying the desertion is justified, I just really don't like a lot of the stuff I see in terms of military recruitment.

Yeah, they're the best snake oil salesmen around that's for sure. But that doesn't have anything to do with the post I was replying to. That post seemed to think that because her handicapped husband was unable to care for their children that should somehow release her from her contractual requirements.

I have no sympathy for those who sign legal documents and don't fully understand what they are agreeing to.