Divide deepens between Quebec and rest of Canada

[Senator Clay Davis]

I've said it before, I'll say it again: Alberta will seperate from Canada before Quebec does (though neither is going to happen). Quebec is not getting kicked out because they will then be able to block or tariff to death any products coming in or out of Eastern Canada, making the only way to get goods in or out through Hudson Bay, which would only serve to increase costs anyways. Quebec is also not getting kicked out until the Feds can maximize the revenue they receive from Plan Nord. People can hate Quebec all they want, but having lived there, its nothing like the people who've never been there say it is.

[mykalberta]

Tbqh I have mostly forgotten about Quebec. They are what they are and there is no real point in worrying about them.

The only thing that upsets me about them is how they run their finances with the expectation that the Feds money is a guaranteed flow and not something extra and they plan their budgets like its just another guaranteed revenue source and so they have no incentive to cut any programs to balance their own budget.

Other than that whenever QC gets brought up I just go meh and move on.

[Ozy_Flame]

I would be heartbroken if Quebec did separate just because I know many Quebecers who might be worse off from it. They are, despite the media cliches, nice people who are actually very skilled and we need them in our country. Kicking Quebec out of Confederation would be a massive brain drain on the rest of the country.

[Hans Landa]

Originally Posted by Kavy

if they are actually racist or not, I have no idea.

I'm pretty sure everything that acknowledges someone's race is racist on this board.

Unless of course you're bashing white people in Edmonton or culturally proud Francophones in Quebec. For some reason, that's either not offensive to anyone, or those people simply don't matter because of their race? I have no idea.

Carry on.

[MarchHare]

The only thing that upsets me about them is how they run their finances with the expectation that the Feds money is a guaranteed flow and not something extra and they plan their budgets like its just another guaranteed revenue source and so they have no incentive to cut any programs to balance their own budget.

Federal money is guaranteed. It's in the constitution. Alberta is also the recipient of federal transfers (12.2% of the province's money comes from Ottawa), and our provincial budget takes this source of revenue into consideration.

Frankly, most (all?) provincial governments could not afford to provide the services that Canadians demand without transfer payments from the feds.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Kavy

I find his comment intresting, and obivously were not ment to be racist to asians, however, if they are actually racist or not, I have no idea.

Is there such a thing as "positive racism"? I think he used the word "Asians" because using the word "immigrants" would have opened him and his party up to massive PQ attacks. You can denigrate unnamed, faceless, cultureless "immigrants" with impunity. But as soon as you begin to narrow that definition, you become racist. I'd say this guy was smart to do that.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Federal money is guaranteed. It's in the constitution. Alberta is also the recipient of federal transfers (12.2% of the province's money comes from Ottawa), and our provincial budget takes this source of revenue into consideration.

True, but it should also go without saying that we send to Ottawa far more than we get back.

[BurningYears]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

True, but it should also go without saying that we send to Ottawa far more than we get back.

from the wiki page on equalization payments:

Quebec and Ontario will receive the most from equalization payments in the 2012-2013 year.[4]
However, per capita, PEI benefits the most. In the 2012-2013 year, the following provinces will receive equalization payments:[4]

• Quebec ($7.391 billion)
• Ontario ($3.261 billion)
• Manitoba ($1.671 billion)
• New Brunswick ($1.495 billion)
• Nova Scotia ($1.268 billion)
• Prince Edward Island ($337 million)

The following provinces will not qualify for equalization payments in 2012-2013:[4]

• Alberta
• Saskatchewan
• Newfoundland and Labrador
• British Columbia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equaliz...ents_in_Canada

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

True, but it should also go without saying that we send to Ottawa far more than we get back.

Yes, but we were specifically discussing funding sources for provincial budgets. Just like Quebec, the Government of Alberta receives money from the feds regardless of any fiscal policies enacted by the legislature. Even when we were debt free and running big surpluses during the twilight of Klein's government, Ottawa still sent billions to Edmonton each year.

Obviously Albertans pay more in federal taxes than they receive in federal government services, but that's a different issue entirely (and one that is, IMO, hugely overblown).

[schteve_d]

Originally Posted by opendoor

For all the haranguing about Quebec sucking the rest of the country dry, the Maritimes are a much bigger money pit. Here's the federal money that goes in and out of each area:


QC (7.75 million people):

Federal Revenue: $39.7 billion ($5122 per person)

Federal Expenditures: $53.3 billion ($6877 per person)

Deficit: $13.6 billion ($1755 per person)



NS, NB, PE, and NF (2.3 million combined):

Federal Revenue: $13.3 billion ($5782 per person)

Federal Expenditures: $29.2 billion ($12691 per person)

Deficit: $15.9 billion ($6909 per person)

Is this transfer payments only?

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by BurningYears

from the wiki page on equalization payments:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equaliz...ents_in_Canada

Equalization is only one type of Federal -> Provincial transfer payment. Alberta does not currently qualify for that program, but we still receive other transfers from Ottawa (roughly $5 billion last year).

[missdpuck]

If you kick them out they might just move the whole thing down here. Which would mean we'd finally have more than one poutine place. YAY!

[dissentowner]

I am tired of Quebec's crap, especially the PQ. We need to go back to older laws and stop being so democratic with this party. What they are preaching is treason in my eyes, Quebec belongs to Canada. Quebec should receive no special treatment over any other province and they also have zero right to try and seperate. If the province tried to seperate I would hope the big wigs in Ottawa would send in the military to end that b.s.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GGG

I think the approach that needs to be taken needs to shift into much more stick than carrot. The problem is they are swing voters and therefore need to be bought.
.

This is why Alberta is politically weak relative to it's value in confederation.

Quebec knows how to play their cards. In Alberta, none of the major politcal parties need to try very hard to impress them.

If Alberta shocked the country and voted Liberal in one election, we would suddenly see a lot pandering for their votes.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by schteve_d

Is this transfer payments only?

No, it's total federal revenue and expenditures for each province. Transfer payments are only a small part of the expenditure figures.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I am tired of Quebec's crap, especially the PQ. We need to go back to older laws and stop being so democratic with this party. What they are preaching is treason in my eyes, Quebec belongs to Canada. Quebec should receive no special treatment over any other province and they also have zero right to try and seperate. If the province tried to seperate I would hope the big wigs in Ottawa would send in the military to end that b.s.

What should England do with Scotland?

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by troutman

What should England do with Scotland?

Is Scotland a country or a province of England?

[troutman]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Is Scotland a country or a province of England?

It is complicated, but Scotland is having a referendum in 2014.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottis...ferendum,_2014

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Is Scotland a country or a province of England?

Scotland is a constituent country of the United Kingdom (just like England). It is not a sovereign state for the purposes of international law.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I am tired of Quebec's crap, especially the PQ. We need to go back to older laws and stop being so democratic with this party. What they are preaching is treason in my eyes, Quebec belongs to Canada. Quebec should receive no special treatment over any other province and they also have zero right to try and seperate. If the province tried to seperate I would hope the big wigs in Ottawa would send in the military to end that b.s.

I assume that right before the military attack on Quebec we would sabotage all of our Quebec bases and imprison all our Quebec born military members. Would you suggest that we also create internment camps for the residents of Canada of French heritage lest they rise up with their brothers.

Really, it would be quite sad if the citizens of Quebec decided to separate and could likely spell the end of Canada or possibly a breakdown of the provinces into individual states with some common elements similar to the EU. But if they do decide to separate I think we would have to let them go. After negotiating the separation agreement of course.

I can't imagine the separation getting further than negotiations though. Both sides simply have too much to lose and it would become very apparent once they started negotiating.