08-02-2012, 10:19 AM
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#21
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maryland State House, Annapolis
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I don't think you can actually go to jail for abusing an expense account. Fraudulent tax claims made off the expense account are another matter though.
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
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08-02-2012, 10:37 AM
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#22
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Edmonton
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I wonder if the CRA will look into his expenses then to decide if they were a perk that should be taxed or legitimate work related expenses.
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08-02-2012, 10:52 AM
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#23
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 Posted the 6 millionth post!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GP_Matt
I wonder how much a person has to abuse their expense account before it goes from allowing them to resign to demanding the money be returned to actual criminal charges.
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CEO's who owe dilligence to their shareholders are in some ways equal to this public executive/taxpayer dollar scenario. However, the private sector can get away with it a little easier.
There is abhorrent spending in both sectors; seems like no matter what industry you work in, ethics and human deceny is never a gaurantee.
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08-02-2012, 10:53 AM
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#24
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Franchise Player
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This story makes me every happy to see my hard earned tax dollars going somewhere useful. Signing off for a f***ing muffin and juice when you rake in that kind of salary?? WTF.
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08-02-2012, 10:58 AM
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#25
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntingwhale
This story makes me every happy to see my hard earned tax dollars going somewhere useful. Signing off for a f***ing muffin and juice when you rake in that kind of salary?? WTF.
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This is the kind of thing that is so funny. If this guy was expensing a $50 breakfast people would be choked, but because he buys something cheap he should just pay? When I was employed by a business and had an expense account I would expense things like this. Could I afford it? Clearly. But why should I pay for things like that when that's the very point of an expense account; to cover reasonable expenses associated with your job.
Before anyone dives all over me, I definitely think that the guy should've been canned. I'm not defending him in any possible way. I just think that in some ways people with expense accounts can't win.
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08-02-2012, 11:04 AM
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#26
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slava
I just think that in some ways people with expense accounts can't win.
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I don't think it's that complicated; if it is directly related to your role then likely will be approved. High amounts might need prior approval.
Things that you buy for yourself; ie: breakfast alone, repairs to your vehicle, nightcap at hotel or pron.... You pull out your own wallet.
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08-02-2012, 11:10 AM
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#27
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by First Lady
Things that you buy for yourself; ie: breakfast alone, repairs to your vehicle, nightcap at hotel or pron.... You pull out your own wallet.
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Good thing I'm not in a public position.
I expense meals when I'm away on training or business meetings out of town before. And these are alone meals.
I think I'll need to start expensing Steaks instead of McDonalds, so the company accountant doesn't start asking me to pay for my cheap McDonalds myself.
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08-02-2012, 11:13 AM
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#28
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: An all-inclusive.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by First Lady
I don't think it's that complicated; if it is directly related to your role then likely will be approved. High amounts might need prior approval.
Things that you buy for yourself; ie: breakfast alone, repairs to your vehicle, nightcap at hotel or pron.... You pull out your own wallet.
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If you're expensing your breakfast or lunch every day and you aren't entertaining clients or whoever, then you're abusing the system (personal development meals and expenses are fair IMO). I have no idea how half of this stuff got approved to begin with. I got the third degree when I expensed a flight on WestJet where, for whatever reason, I had two invoices that were off by $1.
Last edited by Kybosh; 08-02-2012 at 11:16 AM.
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08-02-2012, 11:14 AM
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#29
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bomber317
Good thing I'm not in a public position.
I expense meals when I'm away on training or business meetings out of town before. And these are alone meals.
I think I'll need to start expensing Steaks instead of McDonalds, so the company accountant doesn't start asking me to pay for my cheap McDonalds myself.
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I suspect that is either something in your contract or at least discussed before hand that they are allowable expenses in your situation.
I will concede use of public funds likely will be (should be) subject to great scrutiny.
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08-02-2012, 11:15 AM
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#30
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
Won't someone think of the people with expense accounts? I wonder if we should set up a telethon with the opressed expense account havers.
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I know, its not exactly helping the homeless or battered women or anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bomber317
Good thing I'm not in a public position.
I expense meals when I'm away on training or business meetings out of town before. And these are alone meals.
I think I'll need to start expensing Steaks instead of McDonalds, so the company accountant doesn't start asking me to pay for my cheap McDonalds myself.
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I guess this is my point. I didn't ever go crazy with my expense account. Maybe I had a drink with dinner or something like that, but it was totally within the bounds of acceptability (which is not something you would think would be difficult for people to do, but clearly for some folks it is).
The guy expensed something for $2, which admittedly is cheap and probably I wouldn't even stretch that far, but that's hardly a concern. Its the egregious over-spending and expecting that it can be done because its not your money.
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08-02-2012, 11:17 AM
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#31
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: An all-inclusive.
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08-02-2012, 11:28 AM
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#32
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Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Crowsnest Pass
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The Flames depend on tickets and heroin beers being business expenses.
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08-02-2012, 11:29 AM
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#33
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by First Lady
I suspect that is either something in your contract or at least discussed before hand that they are allowable expenses in your situation.
I will concede use of public funds likely will be (should be) subject to great scrutiny.
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As with Slava, I didn't go crazy on my account.
It's not something in my contract. But it is reasonable when my company sends me on a trip for work, my meals are covered. If something is ineligible, the accountants would deny that expense.
Even if public expense accounts were fully public. ie: stating a $25/$50/$75/$100 per diem, there would still be people that would say. "I could eat for $10 a day, so should they". It would be tough to attract high performing individuals for a public position if everything was publicized.
I agree that in this situation, he abused his account. An internal policy with checks and balances to ensure no abuse can be done to an expense is needed. If the system is broken, people will always find a way to abuse it.
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08-02-2012, 11:36 AM
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#34
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bomber317
I agree that in this situation, he abused his account. An internal policy with checks and balances to ensure no abuse can be done to an expense is needed. If the system is broken, people will always find a way to abuse it.
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Yes, that's it, bang on. He had the position for just over 3.5 years, during that time he averaged just shy of $2000.00 per week. At some point someone should have said "how can we get this under control".
Apparently many of the expenses just say "business dinner" with no documentation of who attended or what was discussed. This wouldn't pass most corporate expense accounts and certainly doesn't meet CRA's requirements.
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08-02-2012, 11:37 AM
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#35
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Edmonton
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My logic for expensing out of town lunches and such is that you no longer have the option to bring your own homemade food in to eat. I can bring sandwiches to my office to eat for lunch but if I am out of town for a few days that becomes an inconvenience. By the same token, if I work late and end up grabbing dinner out then that is a legitimate expense as I didn't foresee needing to work late.
The small expenses are pretty irrelevant in my mind. I don't generally expense anything under $10, but can see where it would add up. For example, if I am in Calgary for a week and take the train several times it could add up to $20 but would be hard to expense, alternatively, I could take a cab every where and spend far more money but it is easy to expense. I will take the train to save the company money, but if you were doing it all the time it would add up and why should you be penalized for saving the company money.
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08-02-2012, 12:26 PM
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#36
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Franchise Player
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i find it somewhat amusing how the sense of entitlement seems to be proportional to the size of your wage. i would say i earn an average wage, and i enjoy getting stuff at work (like the boss ordering pizza or inviting me out for golf) - i would never dream of asking for anything - and my general expectation is that i be provided with the resources and materials to do what i am asked to do.
my wife recently went out of town for a work junket and one of the ladies that also went who likely earns in in excess of $150k and drives a foreign made fancy vehicle asked if the ladies attending this workshop could make a company paid side trip to the spa - coomon sense prevailed and the idea was shot down. But it sure seemed nervy to ask for what seemed like an excessive treat just because they were asked to make an appearnace out of town.....
__________________
If I do not come back avenge my death
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08-02-2012, 12:41 PM
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#37
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Franchise Player
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When I had an expense account at my previous job, when I was out of town for work, I would expense everything. Beer with dinner? No problem. Extra large pizza to share with a buddy? Why not.
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08-02-2012, 12:45 PM
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#38
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Calgary
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You can find the nearly 800 pages of expenses obtained via the FOIP request here. Is large .pdf
Couple of things I would like more info on.
1) where did he live? There seem to be a lot of hotel and taxi bills in Edmoton for someone who presumably was based (living) in Edmonton.
2) was the car his or a government vehicle? As reported there are expense claims for repairs, but I also found one where they paid the insurance deductible of $500.00 for a windshield replacement.
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08-02-2012, 01:05 PM
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#39
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Not a casual user
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
How many executives do you know who don't expense $76k per month? Seriously, we're bordering on full ###### here.
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It's high time that the stupid, angry, crazy, and otherwise damaging people got called out.
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08-02-2012, 01:12 PM
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#40
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Not a casual user
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
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Quote:
Mazurkewich said AHS knew about the Ontario controversy when it hired Merali, but did not believe it would happen again.
Mazurkewich said during the hiring process AHS did not review expenses Merali claimed under Capital Health’s former CEO Sheila Weatherill, who personally signed most of the expense claims.
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Quote:
A $524.86 repair bill for Merali’s Mercedes-Benz car window was paid on July 10, 2006. Two other Weber Motor bills were approved for $1,794.00 (Dec. 19, 2006) and $727.53 (Feb. 21, 2008) with no handwritten note to explain what the cost was for.
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Quote:
Reached by telephone, Weatherill, who now sits on the board for Alberta Health Services, said she was on vacation and couldn’t comment.
“I haven’t seen any of the material yet,” she said. “I’ve been away.”
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http://www.edmontonjournal.com/healt...857/story.html
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