US Investment Property Workshop

[SeoulFire]

Originally Posted by blankall

My understanding as the reason for the depressed markets in Florida, Arizona, California, and Las Vegas, is that there are large areas that are totally vacant. How can you guarantee any kind of rental income?

Not guaranteeing anything at all - there is risk with any investment. I am not going to give my take as it will be covered on Friday in the session. One very simplified answer is that people who got foreclosed can't get a mortgage (which leads to the very profitable lease option structure).

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Fair enough, I'm sure you have legal advice saying what you're doing is in compliance with securities law. My impression was that public offerings of securities like:

required a prospectus, and either a public registration or they could be sold by an exempt market dealer.

No securities are being sold - you are simply a private money lender who lends at given terms bound by contract and secured by the property.

[Bill Bumface]

Am I the only one who thinks this whole thing reeks of being shady as hell?

[SeoulFire]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Am I the only one who thinks this whole thing reeks of being shady as hell?

Care to elaborate?

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by SeoulFire

No securities are being sold - you are simply a private money lender who lends at given terms bound by contract and secured by the property.

Hmm...I thought once you've advertised publicly for money to be lent to you from more than one party that it became a securities transaction. I'm not a securities lawyer, so I'll leave it alone.

Personally, I'd want a letter from a securities lawyer at a big firm saying it was kosher before I invested. Others may have different risk tolerances.

[hmmhmmcamo]

Originally Posted by SeoulFire

Care to elaborate?

edit...nm. I didn't see the Power Ring thread. imo it's kinda shady but whatever.

[SeoulFire]

Originally Posted by hmmhmmcamo

What exactly are you selling?

People are not going to fly up from Florida to teach people (for free) about investing in real estate out of the goodness of their hearts, so what's the deal?

It was stated in the original post that they are coming to work with existing investors - of which I am one of them. These existing investors are welcome to bring interested guests to the workshop and that there will be some available seats for others (general public) to learn about US real estate investing. The end goal, of course, would be to 'sell' the new people on the attractiveness of investment properties. A full team is in place to assist new investors through the whole process.

So no...it is not out of the goodness of their hearts - it is business. They are simply servicing their existing investors while trying to attract more at the same time - simple marketing.

In addition to this, the business is full service - from locating the property to rehab (if necessary) to management - so a few transactions would make it worthwhile.

Lastly, it is not all that expensive. $600 give or take for the flight, $500 give or take per day for the room, and hotel costs and it's taken care of. In fact, coming here and doing this is comparable to running a decent sized ad in the Herald (they wanted $2500!).

[SeoulFire]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Hmm...I thought once you've advertised publicly for money to be lent to you from more than one party that it became a securities transaction. I'm not a securities lawyer, so I'll leave it alone.

Personally, I'd want a letter from a securities lawyer at a big firm saying it was kosher before I invested. Others may have different risk tolerances.

It doesn't work like that - it is not pooled at all. It is a one-on-one transaction between investor and lender facilitated by the legal team.

[Bill Bumface]

It sounds like I buy myself a house in Florida and rent it out, and some 3rd party takes a bunch of my money in all steps of the process.

I guess it's good if you're too nervous/lazy to do the research yourself, but it's just not sounding super attractive.

Do you get money for bringing other people in?

[SeoulFire]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

It sounds like I buy myself a house in Florida and rent it out, and some 3rd party takes a bunch of my money in all steps of the process.

Not sure what you are getting at here. Regardless where you buy a property some third party will always take some of the money (from the seller side although it is pretty much always factored into the price). If the property needs some work to get rent ready (already factored into the price) you could do it yourself if you had the knowledge and time or you could pay somebody to do it. Since these are in Florida the second option is widely used (although one investor went down and did a ton himself). Finally, property management companies are the most common way to manage rental properties. Most people don't have the time or knowledge to do it properly on top of their full time job - it is not unique to this market.

I guess it's good if you're too nervous/lazy to do the research yourself, but it's just not sounding super attractive.

Research would help you compare values of the offered inventory but that is about it. These properties are purchased bulk from servicing agents pre mls and sold bulk 30-35% below mls. Unless you have those connections, nervousness or laziness are pretty much irrelevant.

Do you get money for bringing other people in?

To the workshop? No. If they decide that it is something they want to pursue and make a transaction? Yes (not a commission). The only cost is time spent if you feel it is not for you.

Investing in the US is not for everybody - they know it and I know it. Most Canadians are very skeptical and very few take the time to actually learn about the markets before dismissing it as 'shady' or 'not attractive'. There is no secret 'get rich' scheme here - the US market in certain areas is in shambles which creates opportunity.

I attempted to address some of the concerns here knowing full well that it would not change an already decided mind. For those that are open minded to the information - attend the workshop and decide after learning about the market and talking with the team.

[Bill Bumface]

Alright, it sounds less scammy, but I'll always have a red flag up for "what's the catch?" for anyone pushing an investment. Frankly I've never heard of a "free seminar" that wasn't a scam.

If this is such an awesome deal, you think the dude at the top would want to keep things quiet so the market for these marginal properties doesn't go up. I just wonder "what is the benefit for the guy running the show?".

[missdpuck]

I don't know anything about SW Florida taxes. I just know Palm Bch County is a disaster tax wise. You really have to go by the county. And insurance is another problem, especially if you are in a coastal area that can only be insured by Citizens.
That being said, the people on the SW side te.d to be a heckuva lot nicer than the SE people. More Midwesterners on the west side.

A quick tax example from a county I'm familiar with: Okeechobee County's taxes are about half those of Palm Beach.

And hey, why not buy a place in Ochopee ?

Seriously though, you're saying Naples, Ft Myers....?

[SeoulFire]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Alright, it sounds less scammy, but I'll always have a red flag up for "what's the catch?" for anyone pushing an investment. Frankly I've never heard of a "free seminar" that wasn't a scam.

If this is such an awesome deal, you think the dude at the top would want to keep things quiet so the market for these marginal properties doesn't go up. I just wonder "what is the benefit for the guy running the show?".

Simplest way to explain that would be buy wholesale then sell wholesale and makes money on quantity. The guy at the top also makes no excuses in saying that he is an investor first and will most likely cherry pick the sweetest deals and distribute the rest through the investor network. They do not deal with anything that does not meet their own investment property criteria.

As for the free seminar - it is just a means of advertising on a personal level.

[SeoulFire]

Originally Posted by missdpuck

I don't know anything about SW Florida taxes. I just know Palm Bch County is a disaster tax wise. You really have to go by the county. And insurance is another problem, especially if you are in a coastal area that can only be insured by Citizens.
That being said, the people on the SW side te.d to be a heckuva lot nicer than the SE people. More Midwesterners on the west side.

A quick tax example from a county I'm familiar with: Okeechobee County's taxes are about half those of Palm Beach.

And hey, why not buy a place in Ochopee ?

When I was down there in November I was checking out lots of areas but kind of fell in love with the Gulf Coast side - especially Fort Myers. Even in my short stay I noticed that SW was so much more laid back and relaxed than the east coast. Downtown Naples (just down the road) has in my opinion the coolest restaurant strip I have ever seen - amazing food and decent prices too.

Thus, I chose Lee County! There are amazing deals all over Florida - I was very interested in Orlando as well but decided to focus on one area for ease of administration.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by SeoulFire

Lastly, it is not all that expensive. $600 give or take for the flight, $500 give or take per day for the room, and hotel costs and it's taken care of. In fact, coming here and doing this is comparable to running a decent sized ad in the Herald (they wanted $2500!).

This quote is almost word for word identical to a presentation that I accidentally went to a few years ago. That presentation even went far enough to pass out a quote from the Edmonton Journal showing the advertising rates. Their presentation was about travel and definitely seemed like a scam.
I have no opinion on scam for your presentation as I am sure there are a lot of great presentations and there is nothing wrong with getting information.

One quick way to find out if it is a scam for me is to go with your wife and after talking to the sales type guy mention that you two are going to go outside for a smoke. If he immediately follows you out to prevent you from speaking alone it is fishy to me.

[missdpuck]

Agree with your choices and taste, SF.I wouldn't advise the SE for anyone unless they had some reason to move to Miami. Altho some parts of Northern PBC are lovely, the planning is a bit poor. Central and SW have done a much better job of preserving Florida's uniqueness. And I actually love little Ochopee and the whole Collier County Everglades thing.

[SeoulFire]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

This quote is almost word for word identical to a presentation that I accidentally went to a few years ago. That presentation even went far enough to pass out a quote from the Edmonton Journal showing the advertising rates. Their presentation was about travel and definitely seemed like a scam.
I have no opinion on scam for your presentation as I am sure there are a lot of great presentations and there is nothing wrong with getting information.

One quick way to find out if it is a scam for me is to go with your wife and after talking to the sales type guy mention that you two are going to go outside for a smoke. If he immediately follows you out to prevent you from speaking alone it is fishy to me.

I'd follow you out since my wife doesn't smoke and has no business talking to you alone!

Bad jokes aside, people are free to come and go over the course of the three days. Some people cannot make Friday and will attend Saturday and Sunday. Others will be there Friday and Sunday etc.

The key here is that there is no sales attached to this workshop. No memberships, no service fees, nothing. It is possible that people could buy properties at this but I expect that only current investors would have any intention of doing so. Most (if not all) transactions would be done via phone or email after the workshop. Nobody will ask for a check or to sign on the dotted line. Take the info and think about it for a few weeks or whatever. I will be tweeting deals on the twitter account (brand new...no followers yet!) and if you see something interesting talk to the team directly. I am not involved in the actual transactions in any form.

Finally, doing business with them is not contingent on attending this workshop (as there are no memberships, fees, signups etc) - people can contact them directly at any time. This is, however, a good chance to meet part of the team and learn more about the markets.

I think a lot of the skepticism comes from the standard practice for these real estate sessions:

1) teaser seminar "no money down" "0% financing" "no credit check" now pay $750 for 3 day seminar
2) 3 day seminar - lots of great and useful information with strong warnings you can't do it alone - pay upwards of $7000 to join club (can be as high as $30k) and get access to power team etc etc
3) do some transactions (maybe - since most of the selling was on 0 down etc etc but the reality of today's market this is simply not true). You might be able to find a seller financed deal with 0 down but I would not count on it.

For this one, it is simply educate and present services. You can choose to do business or not with nothing out of pocket if you don't.

[GP_Matt]

I think the biggest problem is that it only takes a few crooked things like this to make people nervous about all of them. Time share doesn't help as they used to push those as investments.

[SeoulFire]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I think the biggest problem is that it only takes a few crooked things like this to make people nervous about all of them. Time share doesn't help as they used to push those as investments.

I actually expected a much rougher crowd to be honest. On the flipside, I also had set a goal of 3-4 attendees from here but that has not yet materialized either.

[Bill Bumface]

Good on you for not snapping at the people who are giving you a rough time (me).

[geos]

Originally Posted by SeoulFire

No securities are being sold - you are simply a private money lender who lends at given terms bound by contract and secured by the property.

So there is going to be a note/contract of some kind and a security interest in the property?

NI 45-106:

“debt security”

means any bond, debenture, note or similar instrument representing indebtedness, whether secured or unsecured;

I'm not a lawyer or in any capacity to provide a professional opinion on that and I'm not suggesting you are not in compliance with securities regulations... but perhaps you should consult such a professional. Maybe you already have. That's fine. Just suggesting.

And I'm not trying to discredit or to provide a positive or negative opinion on your opportunity either.