[News] B.C. Strikes Down Law Banning Doctor Assisted Suicide

[VO #23]

Originally Posted by troutman

It really should be decided by Parliament.

Justice Smith has given Parliament one year “to take whatever steps it sees fit to draft and consider legislation.” During that time the ruling is suspended. However, the judge has also granted Ms. Taylor a constitutional exemption during that period that permits her to proceed with physician-assisted death under specified conditions.

And then we remembered which parties are currently sitting in the B.C. and federal legislatures....

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

People do die with dignity in a number of ways though - however doing so without choice in how they want to die is not dignified in my view and that is the central tenant.

I hope you and others get your wish. Suicide will not be my choice if that issue ever arises for me.

People should have the option to end their lives as they so desire. Also people who have chosen the suicide route can still get to say goodbye to friends and loved ones, get their affairs in order and talk to a pastor about their funeral. I don't understand that comment at all.

I stand corrected. If it's a prolonged illness like ALS then yes you can do the above. In my lady friends case it was a few months and she had to quickly do the above.

It is a personal issue and one that I can completely empathize with on every level, combine that with the fact that I view it as a medical procedure and I don't think this is a question at all.

I have no problem with people ending theirs lives as they see fit. Just as long as GP and nurses aren't forced to do it.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Dion

I hope you and others get your wish. Suicide will not be my choice if that issue ever arises for me.

I stand corrected. If it's a prolonged illness like ALS then yes you can do the above. In my lady friends case it was a few months and she had to quickly do the above.

I have no problem with people ending theirs lives as they see fit. Just as long as GP and nurses aren't forced to do it.

Okay I think you are having difficulty understanding the difference between physician assisted suicide and murder to be honest with you. No one is forcing someone to kill themselves nor is anyone forcing someone to perform the procedure. Right now people are able to state their objections and under their professional codes they have not only the right but the responsibility not to perform the procedure. Much like no one forces a doctor to perform an abortion actually (not to bring up that discussion again).

So I take it you are in favour of physician assisted suicide being legalized then?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Okay I think you are having difficulty understanding the difference between physician assisted suicide and murder to be honest with you. No one is forcing someone to kill themselves nor is anyone forcing someone to perform the procedure. Right now people are able to state their objections and under their professional codes they have not only the right but the responsibility not to perform the procedure. Much like no one forces a doctor to perform an abortion actually (not to bring up that discussion again).

Thank you for the clarification on the professional codes. I'm glad to hear that a GP has a choice in all matters.

Some food for thought....

The leadership of the American Medical Association (AMA) has been outspoken and influential on this topic. The AMA Council on Ethical and Judicial Affairs has stated that participation in physician-assisted suicide is “fundamentally incompatible with the physician's role as healer.”

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1495216/

So I take it you are in favour of physician assisted suicide being legalized then?

On a personal level i'm not for it as it devalues life. IMO it sends a strong message to all terminaly ill people that caring for them is not in our best interests and you're better off using assisted suicide. I could be wrong but I would think that the terminally ill might feel pressure to go that way.

[Jacks]

I'm all for it, people who have horrible illnesses, with no cure, shouldn't be kept alive against their will while suffering every day. At the same time conscience rights should apply so that no doctor or nurse is forced to take someone's life in order to keep their job. The key part of that is the illness would be uncureable and that the person has no quality of life. A 19 year old kid who gets dumped by their girl/boyfriend and wants to end it all need not apply.

[trublmaker]

Originally Posted by Dion

On a personal level i'm not for it as it devalues life. IMO it sends a strong message to all terminaly ill people that caring for them is not in our best interests and you're better off using assisted suicide. I could be wrong but I would think that the terminally ill might feel pressure to go that way.

That's where freedom of CHOICE comes in. Personally one of my biggest fears is being a burden on someone else through a terminal illness. If I can't care for myself then I don't want someone else to have to.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by trublmaker

That's where freedom of CHOICE comes in. Personally one of my biggest fears is being a burden on someone else through a terminal illness. If I can't care for myself then I don't want someone else to have to.

Username does not compute.

[Thor]

Seb that article you posted is excellent, thanks so much for that.

[ranchlandsselling]

"Our bodies break down, sometimes when we're ninety, sometimes before we're even born, but it always happens and there's never any dignity in it. I don't care if you can walk, see, wipe your own ass. It's always ugly. Always. You can live with dignity, we can't die with it." - House

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by ranchlandsselling

"Our bodies break down, sometimes when we're ninety, sometimes before we're even born, but it always happens and there's never any dignity in it. I don't care if you can walk, see, wipe your own ass. It's always ugly. Always. You can live with dignity, we can't die with it." - House

Damn you!

[Matty81]

I am with the majority here in believing people should have the choice when they are mentally capable.

Can't help but think this was a real grenade the judge lobbed at Harper by backdating the judgement a year so they could make legislation. I'm really interested to see what happens. On the one hand, it seems like the majority of Canadians are for a carefully restricted form of euthanasia. On the other, his bedrock are the same guys who fractured off into an extreme right wing party when more moderate Conservatives alienated them with progressive views.

Maybe they'll just ram something home in the next budget bill (sorry, had to).

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by trublmaker

...Personally one of my biggest fears is being a burden on someone else through a terminal illness. If I can't care for myself then I don't want someone else to have to.

Speak for yourself. One of my enduring dreams as a parent is to make my kids's life as miserable as possible when I am too old and decrepit to look after myself.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Speak for yourself. One of my enduring dreams as a parent is to make my kids's life as miserable as possible when I am too old and decrepit to look after myself.

You should start bottling your piss now.

[trublmaker]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Speak for yourself. One of my enduring dreams as a parent is to make my kids's life as miserable as possible when I am too old and decrepit to look after myself.

They'll probably leave you in your dirty diaper and just park you facing a corner with your bib on collecting drool. Have fun.

[Daradon]

Morally I think doc assisted suicide is a great thing.

Logistically it's fraught with so much peril and possible abuses.

It's something we need to take a serious look at and work out a plan and system for. But until then, I don't know if I can support it.

[Thor]

Just because its difficult we shouldn't keep avoiding this, its our duty as young and healthy people to honor the elderly by giving them the right to go with dignity, now, not in 10 years, 20 years, 100yrs.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Thor

Just because its difficult we shouldn't keep avoiding this, its our duty as young and healthy people to honor the elderly by giving them the right to go with dignity, now, not in 10 years, 20 years, 100yrs.

I do agree, I'm just saying we need a system for it first. Both legal and medical, before we go willy-nilly into it.

It is so fraught with pitfalls that we could make things worse before we make it better.

[Flash Walken]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/suicidetourist/

[Dion]

Physicians Who Have Researched Euthanasia Speak Out:

"The experience of the Dutch people makes it clear that legalization of assisted suicide and euthanasia is not the answer to the problems of people who are terminally ill. The Netherlands has moved from assisted suicide to euthanasia, from euthanasia for people who are terminally ill to euthanasia for those who are chronically ill, from euthanasia for physical illneses to euthanasai for psychological distress, and from voluntary euthanasia to involuntary euthanasia (called "termination of the patient without explicit request"). The Dutch government's own commissioned research has documented that in more than one thousand cases a year, doctors actively cause or hasten death without the patient's request." p. 23

"Virtually every guideline established by the Dutch to regulate euthanasia has been modified or violated with impunity." [emphasis added] p. 23

Speaking about how doctors make decisions to implement euthanasia, even when the patient does not request it himself,

"The Dutch courts have implicitly encouraged physicians to make such value decisions. Originally the courts interpreted force majeure as applying if virtually anyone in the doctor's situation would have acted as he did, essentially saying that basic human decency and compassion compelled such action. Subsequently the courts have interepreted it as applying if merely any other member of the medical profession would have acted as did the doctor, which is quite a different standard. Jos Welie, an ethicist formerly at the University of Nijmegen, points out that this ruling elevates physicians to a superior moral status, making their judgments on life and death always just." [emphasis added] p. 94


That is an extremely relevant observation, when considering so-called safeguards some suggest to put in place to prevent abuse of euthanasia and/or physician assisted suicide. A physician advocate of euthanasia, when working with a prospective euthanasia candidate, could refer the patient to a known physician supporter of euthanasia for a second opinion, and both being advocates of euthanasia, would of course come to the conclusion that euthanasia was appropriate, even if many other physicians would strongly disagree. This type of reasoning has resulted in the medical killings of depressed patients, chronically ill and others.

http://www.hospicepatients.org/euth-experts-speak.html

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Thor

Just because its difficult we shouldn't keep avoiding this, its our duty as young and healthy people to honor the elderly by giving them the right to go with dignity, now, not in 10 years, 20 years, 100yrs.

And the elderly have a duty to use that right to not leave young people with crippling debt.