Legalize Ecstasy

[WCan_Kid]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I'm not fracking talking about tabacco smoke, and it has nothing to do with this debate to be honest.

ITs the whole idea of we should legalize this drug because cigarettes are legal its a stupid argument you don't keep legalizing potentially dangerous drungs because one is already legal.

I clould put up a chart saying that we can legalize handguns because they kill less people then tabacco.

There are also far less users of Ecstacy then there are smokes.

Comprehension not your string suit, eh? Graph is deaths per 100 users, not total deaths period.

It's related to the debate because it makes no "fracking" sense to argue against legalizing one substance that's proven to be less harmful than many currently legal substances.

You said it. Keep it illegal because kids won't follow the rules, but backed up your argument by showing the they're already abusing a legal drug in vodka & red bull. Both are potentially fatal if abused, neither are a problem if used responsibly. What's the difference, apart from currently legal vs currently illegal?

Beyond that. How are you planning to go about making everything dangerous illegal?

[CaptainCrunch]

Go back and look at the Vodka and Red bull argument again, I was simply stating that there have been a lot of warnings of the dangers of mixing them and yet they don't pay attention to it.

And my reading comprehension is fine thanks with a larger amount of users like cigarettes a deaths out of 100 chart is going to be more accurate and better tracked then out of a much smaller number of x users.


You can't argue that there is a greater immediate risk to using a drug like ecstacy which increases your body temperature compared to ssmokes that kill you over a long period of time.

Unless you smoke what a pack of smokes in a hour its not going to make you drop dead as your brain cooks like ecstacy.

And lets be honest, do instructions for safe use really mean that much to somebody taking a halluigen?

[SebC]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

There are also far less users of Ecstacy then there are smokes.

Chart already accounts for that.

[TurnedTheCorner]

So in summary:

Legalize ecstasy
Legalize marijuana
Legalize guns
Ban alcohol
Ban tobacco
Ban red meat
Ban cancer
Ban bullets
Ban fat chicks
Draft Brown, Kopitar, Quick and Doughty

I learn so much on CP.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Even in a pure form ex is still a fairly dangerous drung, it raises body temperature and causes severe dehydration, while its not as dangerous as the street forumla, it can still cause problems.

And lets be honest what kid is going to follow directions, red bull and alcohol is fairly dangerous yet people still do it.

So if you sell a kid a bunch of legalized ex and tell him he can only take one pill every 4 hours and to drink lots of water, is he or she going to do it?

Probably not.

See this is the same with alcohol, we have so many deaths from people drinking too much.

This argument while true, is still not a good enough reason to not legalize, heres my reasons why, also same argument for weed.

#1. MDMA is relatively safe, the street pills are often found with other drugs and because you are taking some home lab mdma, you never know what you will get, thus the risks go up. Legal means controlled and you know exactly what you are getting.

#2. Criminals, take more money out of the drug trade, a great deal of crime and police efforts are focused on something that isn't going away by keeping it illegal, prohibition DOES NOT WORK.

#3. Taxes and freeing up the police to fight serious crimes, taking a huge number of cases away from the courts and making money off the taxes put on legal drugs.

There is also in MDMA's case the therapeutically use, which is highly effective tool for people who have suffered severe emotional trauma.

Drug wars do not work, legalizing is the only logical step. You control it, tax it, and spend profits from these drugs to educating people on the risks, and let people of adult age decide on their own what they put into their body.

[WCan_Kid]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Go back and look at the Vodka and Red bull argument again, I was simply stating that there have been a lot of warnings of the dangers of mixing them and yet they don't pay attention to it.

But it doesn't matter what you're talking about, there will always be some who use it in a dangerous manner. If that were the driving force behind laws, just about everything would be illegal.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

And my reading comprehension is fine thanks with a larger amount of users like cigarettes a deaths out of 100 chart is going to be more accurate and better tracked then out of a much smaller number of x users.

I'd argue that makes the point even clearer. Since they're legal substances alcohol and tobacco users are far more likely to report their use than ecstacy users so the actual number of users is probably much higher than reported, but it's hard to lie about the death aspect.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

You can't argue that there is a greater immediate risk to using a drug like ecstacy which increases your body temperature compared to ssmokes that kill you over a long period of time.

Unless you smoke what a pack of smokes in a hour its not going to make you drop dead as your brain cooks like ecstacy.

And lets be honest, do instructions for safe use really mean that much to somebody taking a halluigen?

No need to argue it. Is society better off with the occasional ecstacy user OD'ing or a large percentage of cigarette smokers requiring expensive long term care? Is the risk of frying your brain on E any greater than dying from alcohol poisoning during a frat party?

While it has been a lot of years, my experience was that there were far more ambulances taking people away from nightclubs due to alcohol related issues than there were at raves. Honestly, I thought having a bottle of water in your hand was as much a part of the whole deal with X as glowsticks and repetitive electronic music.

[Thor]

The dehydration and overheating is also very much overblown, its quite rare and I always found any rave I went to full of water bottles and people keeping cool. Its a well understood thing amongst people who use the drug.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Indeed, how can a drug thats completely man made with various chemicals be legal before a drug that grows naturally? Pot first, everything else later.

Indoor marijuana is far from natural. You could easily harm someone if you bought cheap nutrients or use harsh chemicles if you get spidermites or other disease.

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

You pretty much cannot OD on marijuana. Odds are you'll fall asleep way before you can even get to that point, or will be so brain dead (not literally) from smoking so much you won't be able to pick up the pipe. Basically, ODing on pot is about as impossible to do as getting drunk on O'Douls

A human could never OD on marijuana. An average male would have to smoke something like 20,000 joints in about 20 minutes. They have tried giving THC to mice that would be equal to 1000's of times what a human could possibly consume and they have never OD on it.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by WCan_Kid

Did you just pop the numbers 1, 50 and 400 into an excel chart and spit this out?

Seriously, this looks legit.

[GP_Matt]

It sort of looks like mspaint.

Unless I am seriously underestimating the number of ecstasy users users out there, one per 100000 seems pretty crazy. How many users can there possibly be in Canada?

[HPLovecraft]

Let's just cut to what we all really want to see legalized. Bath salts.

[goodyear]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

In theory the house is destroyed, and the supply as well, by a fire. Once discovered, the police will promptly seize the property.

shheeeeeeeeit

[The Yen Man]

Would the government be liable if a bunch of people OD and die on legalized ecstasy?

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Would the government be liable if a bunch of people OD and die on legalized ecstasy?

Is the government responsible for the 1000's that die from alcohol
poisoning each year? I don't see why it would be any differerent.

[The Yen Man]

I know this sounds cruel, but I'd rather have the present situation now where it's illegal and people who use it do so at their own risk (if they die, then that's too bad, their own fault) rather than have it legalized, and be rampantly used like alcohol.

If you think drunk driving was bad, can you imagine a guy high on ecstasy behind the wheel? Scary thought.

[GP_Matt]

Ignoring the humanity arguments though there is a huge cost associated with the current system. Between the crime and the health care costs the social cost of making these products illegal is huge.

[WCan_Kid]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Did you just pop the numbers 1, 50 and 400 into an excel chart and spit this out?

Seriously, this looks legit.

http://thedea.org/statistics.html

Just the first thing that popped up in a google search, probably made up on the spot.

Another couple of seconds with google indicates that the data they used comes from here: http://www.samhsa.gov/. Alcohol and tobacco stats aren't hard to find...

[Senator Clay Davis]

GP_Matt has it dead on. The current system isn't working and is far too costly. You will never convince me legalizing heroin or cocaine will all of a sudden have everyone doing them like alcohol or cigarettes. Its easy enough to get now that the people who want to do it will. Like when alcohol was prohibited, the people who really wanted to drink still did, and those people I would call alcoholics if they need something illegal so badly (since of course all users of drugs are dopers or druggies or whatever).

When prohibition ended I don't think there was some huge spike in the number of alcoholics, and since people know if they do heroin or cocaine once they could end up addicted, I don't expect people will just say "Well I didn't do it before because I didn't want to end up a junkie, but now that its legal I will!". Making drugs legal doesn't make the drugs themselves less dangerous, it just means we aren't wasting billions on an unwinable pursuit.

[SebC]

For those of you who didn't read the article, it was pointed out that during prohibition, methanol poisoning went up. Rather analogous to PMMA.

[nik-]

I want them to legalize mushrooms