Good for the teacher, hopefully he stands his grounds.
It isn't always about making the little darlings feel good about their laziness or failures, they need reality checks before they get to university where the professors don't really give a crap about your excuses or bad work ethic.
I do like the idea of handing them a McDonalds job app instead.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
The Following User Says Thank You to CaptainCrunch For This Useful Post:
I had a few classes where the teacher would make your overall mark 100% based on your final exam score if it was higher. Why study for two tests (midterm and final) when you can just study for the final.
The No Zero Policy is not based on "entitlement" but based on accurate assessment. It is not independantly adopted in Edmonton, but widespread across the world. The concept behind it is that a Zero does not accurately assess what the student does or doesn't know. It just reflects that a student did not complete his/her work. Teachers are responsible to grade according to the Alberta Curriculum and how well they know the material. The Social Studies curriculum does not state:
"The student will understand the effects of Globalization on developing countries by Friday April 12th"
It states just that they know the material by the conclusion of the course. Rarely does a student know 0% of the curriculum.
It makes the teacher's job much more difficult, but instead of zeros, student's are given incompletes. It does not necessarily let students off the hook altogether, but for High School, if a student has too many incompletes by the end of the course, they will have to retake the course. They are not automatically passed through onto the next level with these incompletes.
Last edited by FlamesFanStrandedInEDM; 05-31-2012 at 09:43 PM.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to FlamesFanStrandedInEDM For This Useful Post:
The No Zero Policy is not based on "entitlement" but based on accurate assessment. It is not independantly adopted in Edmonton, but widespread across the world. The concept behind it is that a Zero does not accurately assess what the student does or doesn't know. It just reflects that a student did not complete his/her work. Teachers are responsible to grade according to the Alberta Curriculum and how well they know the material. The Social Studies curriculum does not state:
"The student will understand the effects of Globalization on developing countries by Friday April 12th"
It states just that they know the material by the conclusion of the course. Rarely does a student know 0% of the curriculum.
It makes the teacher's job much more difficult, but instead of zeros, student's are given incompletes. It does not necessarily let students off the hook altogether, but for High School, if a student has too many incompletes by the end of the course, they will have to retake the course. They are not automatically passed through onto the next level with these incompletes.
These students got zeros on their assignments that were not turned in, not as a final grade for class.
I guess if one of these geniuses shows up at my house this summer to cut the grass, and then doesn't actually cut it, I should pay him anyway. He knows how to cut it, and maybe knows what colour grass is, and what makes it grow so that's fair. Maybe I'll just give him 80% of the money since he did cut the grass of the neighbor across the street.
These students got zeros on their assignments that were not turned in, not as a final grade for class.
I guess if one of these geniuses shows up at my house this summer to cut the grass, and then doesn't actually cut it, I should pay him anyway. He knows how to cut it, and maybe knows what colour grass is, and what makes it grow so that's fair. Maybe I'll just give him 80% of the money since he did cut the grass of the neighbor across the street.
That has nothing to do with it. Teachers are not these students employers. The teachers dont benefit from the students getting work done, they have to get work done for themselves. Teachers are not giving out grades for work not done.
With your analogy, you wont pay him, and continue to not pay him until the work is done. If he doesn't cut it at all this summer, he will have to try again next summer. That kid that cuts lawns will be given oppurtunities to cut lawns properly right up until the snow flies. But you wont be paying him til the work is done.
Last edited by FlamesFanStrandedInEDM; 05-31-2012 at 10:07 PM.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to FlamesFanStrandedInEDM For This Useful Post:
That article threw me off with the "uncompleted" word. I thought it had a different meaning than incomplete.
Having read the article again, it states that the guy gave a zero for incomplete tests. That part is kind of BS on the teacher's part. What if I completed 80 percent of it, but didn't know how to do the rest? Does he give me a zero for that?
For assignments, however, I do agree with him giving students a zero. If the assignment is incomplete, then it's not really an assignment that deserves any marks.
The "no zero" thing is for work not handed in. I have talked about this with students in my classes before (we don't have the no zero policy, btw), and they have told me "If I didn't get zero for not doing my work, I'd do really well on one exam/assignment and not write the others. That way I don't risk bringing my mark down". Kids know how to work the system.
The problem with this policy and the arguments for it ("we need to assess the work they actually DID, etc.) is the students are responsible for proving they have learned the entire curriculum. If they don't prove it through assignments and tests, then would they like me to assign an arbitrary mark at the end? I can already imagine the parent complaints! If you actually look at the curriculum for a particular course it gives dozens of bullet points the students need to learn. If they don't produce any work to prove they know a particular bullet, we assume they don't know it. Also, in some courses (I teach high school science) the curriculum also lays out "skill outcomes". If they decide not to do work, such as labs, to show they can perform those skills, what would you like teachers to do for assessment? To include no quantifiable assessment result for some sections of the curriculum for particular students, but all areas for other students (the ones who did their work) is not fair to the students who do all the work. Any final mark for the student with missed work would not be an accurate representation of their understanding of the expected course material, but only a subsection of it instead. For example:
'Student A' does all her work all year and has a final mark of 80% in the course.
'Student B' does half her work through the year, but has an 85% average on the work she did.
Is it reasonable to say Student B has a greater understanding of what was covered in the course? If you were making a decision on hiring/scholarships/acceptance to university, how would you know the difference between these students from their transcripts?
This, and a 'no fail' policy at the junior high level, both contribute to students being pushed into high school without the background knowledge they need, then scheduled for classes they aren't ready for, where they often fail.
I think we need to remember the responsibilities for the parties involved. Teachers are charged with delivering the curriculum and helping students learn it, then giving them opportunities to prove they know it. We can then assess that work. The responsibility is the students' to make use of the opportunities they are given to prove they've learned what was expected of them.
(PS. Keep in mind that I am talking about a minority of students, as most students generally get their work done and write their tests)
Edit: wow, that got long. Sorry.
__________________
Everyone knows scientists insist on using complex terminology to make it harder for True Christians to refute their claims.
Deoxyribonucleic Acid, for example... sounds impressive, right? But have you ever seen what happens if you put something in acid? It dissolves! If we had all this acid in our cells, we'd all dissolve! So much for the Theory of Evolution, Check MATE!
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to tanguay'sstillgood For This Useful Post:
I had a few classes where the teacher would make your overall mark 100% based on your final exam score if it was higher. Why study for two tests (midterm and final) when you can just study for the final.
It surprises me how many are siding with the Sleep Country in the other thread yet they're up in arms with a teacher being disciplined for breaking school policy
If my employer set out a policy and told me not to break it, I'm going to make sure I dont break it.
Like the pink haired employee who had other options, if the teacher wanted to teach a lesson to the kid who missed his assignment/exam, fine, give him a 1/100. Avoid breaking the "no-zero" policy. The fact that he gave a zero was just pig headed and stubborn
he's not the first teacher to hand out zeros, this isn't the first school to have a no zero policy. Both the teacher and the school are trying to do what they personally believe is in the best interests of students. Pretty much the guy is sticking to his guns and the school is sticking to theres.
Odds are though, I would think that something else has happened for him to get suspended, maybe an emotional meeting or something.
Anyways, kids have an interesting view on what might be fair sometimes, but, I doubt that we can really judge these kids on their comments when they probably got blindsided by the reporter hanging around the school.
I think there is still quality in the instruction and material covered in the public education system - but this no failing policy is stupid. I don't think the system would fail a child at all now, even if the parents approached the school or board and said there child was developmentally delayed with a late birthday and needed to be held back. It's beyond ridiculous.
It surprises me how many are siding with the Sleep Country in the other thread yet they're up in arms with a teacher being disciplined for breaking school policy
If my employer set out a policy and told me not to break it, I'm going to make sure I dont break it.
Like the pink haired employee who had other options, if the teacher wanted to teach a lesson to the kid who missed his assignment/exam, fine, give him a 1/100. Avoid breaking the "no-zero" policy. The fact that he gave a zero was just pig headed and stubborn
I think the difference is that one is public and the other is private. If Sleep Country makes stupid rules for their employees to follow it will result in low employee morale and will like hurt their business. If the public school comes up with stupid rules it will hurt morale but the school will continue to receive the same funding as before. They don't have the same feedback mechanism to let them know when they are doing things poorly.
