Surprise, surprise, BMW 3-series wins another comparo

[photon]

How bad is BMW for service and repairs? I've been staying away from considering them because of those things.

[ricosuave]

you guys should check out the bmw documentary on how they brought a 7 series (I think) from concept to production. was fascinating.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by photon

How bad is BMW for service and repairs? I've been staying away from considering them because of those things.

I haven't used them myself, but I've heard both are pretty sub-par at best. The fact that there is absolutely no dealership competition in Calgary can't be good for quality service.

There are some good non-dealer Euro specific shops in town, but that would assume that you are driving a BMW off-warranty....which is territory you tread at your own peril.

[flamesflames444]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Good god that's horrible. I'm surprised you stuck with owning a BMW after all that.

I had an 06 330 before that with zero problems so I was hoping that my 335 was just the result of it coming off the assembly line on a Friday afternoon of a long weekend with the German factory workers' thoughts of some post work pints as opposed to building a quality car.

[Mass_nerder]

I had a 97 325i, with the M package...I loved that car. Favorite car I've ever owned; fast, great pick-up, great transmition, looked great (Hellrot red).
Currently I have a 97 M3 sedan, which is a lot of fun, but I still liked my 325i more (fewer problems). I wish it wasn't stuck back in Calgary
I love them just because they're a lot of fun to drive, and look great (especially the E36s). The mechanical stuff is obviously a little more complicated, and expensive for parts though.
My parents just bought a 2011 135i last week...I'm excited to get back to Calgary this summer and rip around in it for a few days...if only they would have gone for the 1M instead

[Canada 02]

Car and Driver did the same test in 2009, but compared the Infiniti G37 instead of the G25 they used this time.

BMW "won" their test back then as well, but the G37 was a much better comparable than the G25. I'd guess they used the G25 to ensure the BMW victory

When the votes were tallied, the BMW 328i came out on top again this time but by a very small margin: two points. At the track, the Infiniti shamed the Bimmer in every contest except for skidpad (a tie). In acceleration, the chase wasn’t even close, with the G37 ahead by a half-second at 60 mph—5.4 seconds versus 5.9—and leading by 6 mph at the quarter-mile. The G37’s gap was narrower but still significant in the lane change. In braking, its one-foot-out performance from 70 mph—159 feet versus the BMW’s 160—is almost certainly insignificant, but we’ll call that one for the G on the superior detailing of its calipers, finished in glowing satin metallic etched with a subtle Infiniti logo.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests

[Mass_nerder]

Car and driver loves BMW like Jim Hughson loves the Sedins.

[pylon]

I have been a German car driver for 15 years. And this doesn't surprise me.

I currently own a 2011 VW GTI, and a 2008 BMW 135i.

This is where the Japanese miss the mark. Japanese auto manufacturers build cars in manner that appeases the general public, design by committee. High end German stuff, like Benz, BMW, Audi... they design with enthusiasts in mind, and performance, and really don't care what the soccer mom crowd or the A to B driver thinks, that is not their customer. They tend to be hit or miss sometimes as a result, but they are way bolder in what they are willing to do. On paper an Infiniti will run with the equivalent German model, but the feel just isn't there. I call it the Novocaine effect with cars. They deliver performance, but in a very dull, numbing manner lacking exhilaration.

There is no mistaking the drive of a German car. They fell like you are piloting a vehicle, not driving it. They have the feel of a piece of granite in their build quality. They are sometimes weird, for the sake of it. Some people don't embrace it, they want a Maytag on wheels.

Also you have to remember these journalists aren't dumb. If you are just putting lipstick on a Nissan Maxima, a Toyota Camry, or a Japanese Accord, they can see through that, and will call them out as such.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

Car and Driver did the same test in 2009, but compared the Infiniti G37 instead of the G25 they used this time.

BMW "won" their test back then as well, but the G37 was a much better comparable than the G25. I'd guess they used the G25 to ensure the BMW victory

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests

I find it strange they matched up a 328 versus a G37 as that would give the Infiniti an unfair performance advantage. I know the G25 wasn't around then, but to me a 335 match up against a G37 is the natural choice, in which case the BMW would probably be better performance wise than the G37. The price difference in the '09 comparo had the G37 at $5K more than the 328...could you have upgraded from a 328 to a 335 in '09 for $5,000?



Guess it doesn't really matter since the BMW won either way. Personally, I'd take a G37 over a 328 any day.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by pylon

High end German stuff, like Benz, BMW, Audi... they design with enthusiasts in mind, and performance, and really don't care what the soccer mom crowd or the A to B driver thinks, that is not their customer.

This used to be true, but not any more. German cars have been slowly moving away from their focus on driving dynamics and putting more emphasis on comfort, tech and mass-market trends because that's what brings in the money. Otherwise, why the hell would such a thing like the X1/3/5 or 5 Series GT Exist? They're bread and butter is exactly the soccer mom and real estate agent crowd. They are coming out with 20 types of crossovers, and ignoring the cars that made them famous for driving. Hell, you can't even get most of their models with a manual transmission anymore....and that's the one thing that most enthusiasts demand.

Also look what VW is doing...moving away from what made it unique, and instead going the bigger and cheaper route.

I'm not bitter at all!

[TurdFerguson]

No really related to the BMW talk, but I just got a new 2012 Audi S4 and after driving Japanese cars for the last 10 years I can say that their really is a big difference going German (mind you, you sure pay for it). As many have described, my S4 really does feel like a drivers car. Fit and finish is also at a very different level then anything I ever found with a Japanese product (mainly Nissan and Infinity mind you).

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Table 5

This used to be true, but not any more. German cars have been slowly moving away from their focus on driving dynamics and putting more emphasis on comfort, tech and mass-market trends because that's what brings in the money. Otherwise, why the hell would such a thing like the X1/3/5 or 5 Series GT Exist? They're bread and butter is exactly the soccer mom and real estate agent crowd. They are coming out with 20 types of crossovers, and ignoring the cars that made them famous for driving. Hell, you can't even get most of their models with a manual transmission anymore....and that's the one thing that most enthusiasts demand.

Also look what VW is doing...moving away from what made it unique, and instead going the bigger and cheaper route.

I'm not bitter at all!

I would agree with you to an extent. With our cars here (VW) there has been a shift in North America. And we now have a few models that are pretty much North America exclusives. But we still have the highly impractical CC, under sized Tiguan, and Golf/GTI if you want the true euro feel.

In BMW, Benz, Audi and Porsche's case, they have added model to appease a wider market with SUV's, but their core models. C-class, 3 series, A4, 911, have all remained true to their roots, and even though the cars might me bulking up a bit, they are getting faster, and better performing with each iteration, in lieu of some bigger dimensions.

Once they make a 3 series that has the performance qualities of a 89 Lincoln Town Car, then I would agree, but as it stands now, the customer is getting a better and better driving experience with each new model.

[Burninator]

Haha I think Table 5 is the Hack&Lube of cars now.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by pylon

I would agree with you to an extent. With our cars here (VW) there has been a shift in North America. And we now have a few models that are pretty much North America exclusives. But we still have the highly impractical CC, under sized Tiguan, and Golf/GTI if you want the true euro feel.

In BMW, Benz, Audi and Porsche's case, they have added model to appease a wider market with SUV's, but their core models. C-class, 3 series, A4, 911, have all remained true to their roots, and even though the cars might me bulking up a bit, they are getting faster, and better performing with each iteration, in lieu of some bigger dimensions.

I hear ya, but I think even the core cars are getting a little soft around the edges, and plump with weight, due to demands of the masses. The 3 series has gotten a little more concerned with ride and luxury every new generation and less so with handling, and a lot of the newer reviews seem to indicate this is true with the new one too. IMO in the case of BMW the 1-series is the new 3-series because it's still focus mostly on driving (personally, the 128i was one of the more fun cars Ive driven in the last 10 years).

I know that a lot of people say that these CUVs and crossovers are what makes the company money in order to make the fun stuff, which in many ways is true, but I guess my issues is that all these other models tend to shift focus and priorities away from the core values of the company. There's less time to make a few good models, and resources are spread thin.

It's now all about satiating the brand whores of the world. In the case of Porsche, instead of building a sub-Boxster which a lot of enthusiasts have been clamoring for, they are now going to be building a baby Cayenne. Instead of giving us a nice wagon, BMW gives us some bloated Crosstour wannabe. Audi won't even let you get a Quattro wagon with a manual, but pushes you into some lilly crossover.

[Doodlebug]

Originally Posted by Table 5

BMW gives us some bloated Crosstour wannabe. Audi won't even let you get a Quattro wagon with a manual, but pushes you into some lilly crossover.

Dont get me started on the X6....what were they thinking when that got approved

Having owned 2 german cars, I luv how they drive...but oh god the electrical gremlins and cost of repair. Owned an Audi 5000 Quattro back in the early 90's...for its time the car was simply amazing, leaps and bounds ahead of japanese cars of its day....but kept trying to kill me when all its lighting would simply go out while driving at night.

[dirk diggler]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I don't care much for the look of the new ones. I much prefer the C63.

now that is a sweet looking car....

[ClubFlames]

I bought a 2008 528xi in February. Absolutely love the car.

As for repairs on them, from what I have gathered, taking it to a non dealership mechanic is much cheaper and easier and there's a few in town which are good.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by ClubFlames

I bought a 2008 528xi in February. Absolutely love the car.

As for repairs on them, from what I have gathered, taking it to a non dealership mechanic is much cheaper and easier and there's a few in town which are good.

This X threeve billionty.

The local BMW dealers are notoriously expensive since they are a monopoly (same owner).

However, there are some awesome independents that specialize in German cars that I would recommend.

2 square, and Mid-Town service are both awesome.

[Table 5]

Pylon, read this. It more or less explains what I'm thinking, but in a much more poignant way.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...-its-man-card/

[The Fonz]

Sliver... did you used to post as bigpete on cf.com? I weirdly recognize that picture.