Calgary Cops Kill Dog

[Incinerator]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos+Jun 9 2005, 08:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RougeUnderoos @ Jun 9 2005, 08:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Incinerator@Jun 9 2005, 02:03 PM
"oh shinguard, isnt this dog supposed to be inside? what happened in there? Is my partner alright?"

Now while all this goes thru my head in that split second, the dog leaps at me, natural reflex makes me pull out the only self-defence weapon I have and I fire one shot, the dog is down but not out, to put it out of suffering another shot is needed...

I had no idea we had ninjas on the police force here in Calgary.

Anywho... pretty crappy story. I doubt a cop (a normal one) would just shoot a dog if he didn't feel it was a threat to him. I guess it comes down to what you percieve as a threat because some people react quite differently to dogs. I"m pretty sure I'd have a different reaction to a large dog than say fotze or Cowperson would. [/b][/quote]
and this is a cop who grew up around dogs too, so if he's gonna shoot one you can only imagine what a cop who is not familiar with dogs would do.

[MolsonInBothHands]

Originally posted by Incinerator@Jun 9 2005, 02:25 PM
and this is a cop who grew up around dogs too, so if he's gonna shoot one you can only imagine what a cop who is not familiar with dogs would do.

Maybe there was a grudge against German Shepherds because they monopolized all of his father's time? )

Very unfortunate story, but I find the fact the officer had to walk up to the dog to finish it off setting off warning bells in my head. I won't pass judgement yet, but if there was distance between the two, then I would be suspicious that every avenue was not exhausted. I will be very interested to hear more of this story.

I feel much worse in this story than for the tasered lady from a few days ago.

[Indi]

pepper spray works very well with dogs.....don't the boys in blue carry pepper spray.....hhmmm, I wonder if this officer was trained by Officer Ira McCumber??

[Incinerator]

Originally posted by Indi@Jun 9 2005, 10:01 PM
pepper spray works very well with dogs.....don't the boys in blue carry pepper spray.....hhmmm, I wonder if this officer was trained by Officer Ira McCumber??

pepper spray...as far as I know not in Alberta, but I could be wrong...

[Indi]

Originally posted by Incinerator+Jun 9 2005, 10:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Incinerator @ Jun 9 2005, 10:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Indi@Jun 9 2005, 10:01 PM
pepper spray works very well with dogs.....don't the boys in blue carry pepper spray.....hhmmm, I wonder if this officer was trained by Officer Ira McCumber??

pepper spray...as far as I know not in Alberta, but I could be wrong... [/b][/quote]
during the flames extravaganza, all the police at the red mile had pepper spray...I always thought it was part of their gear?

[Incinerator]

Originally posted by Indi+Jun 9 2005, 10:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Indi @ Jun 9 2005, 10:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

pepper spray...as far as I know not in Alberta, but I could be wrong...

during the flames extravaganza, all the police at the red mile had pepper spray...I always thought it was part of their gear? [/b][/quote]
Nevermind, my bad, I got it mixed up with last year's pepper spray ban for special constables. I'm still not sure if cops carry them regularly though.

[Resolute 14]

Originally posted by Flames Draft Watcher+Jun 9 2005, 01:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flames Draft Watcher @ Jun 9 2005, 01:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Snakeeye@Jun 9 2005, 06:15 PM
While I suppose I fit into the "copcarteblanche" crowd that Fotze mentions, I would suggest that you are arguing against the cops because they are cops, not because you have any knowledge of the facts surrounding this incident.

No but thanks for assuming what I was thinking.

What I was actually thinking is that shooting a gun should be a last resort even if it is only at an animal and not a human.

And as I said, it's hard for me to imagine that this was a situation where all other options had been exhausted. But I did acknowledge that it might have been that kind of situation.

That said, if a cop is trained to shoot by reflex, it's hard to blame him for acting on reflex. If we train people to use deadly weapons when confronted, that's what they'll do. But if his life was not in danger, I don't think shooting the dog was justified. Even if he has to take a bite from the animal before they can get it subdued, I would think that would be preferable. [/b][/quote]
And if the dog is rabid?

If the dog catches the officer in the throat?

I suppose a child should take a bite too, just to be sure the dog is actually attacking him?

How about we use that theory against humans? Should an officer (or anyone) have to take a stab wound from a person with a knife before shooting the attacker? Cause, you know, you might be able to talk the person out of attacking you between the first stab wound and the second.

I am curious as to how you are so informed as to what happened that you cannot believe all other options were exhausted? Since you were obviously there, could you please fill us in on the chain of events? It would allow the rest of us to judge whether this was justified, or whether the cop might have overreacted or misinterpreted the dog's actions and intent.

[Bertuzzied]

I don't think the officer shot the dog for the hell of it. Every time their guns go off they have to file reports and the ensuing tonnes of paperwork.

[FlamesAddiction]

He should have tasered it.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction@Jun 9 2005, 04:31 PM
He should have tasered it.

I don't know if you are serious, but there are two reasons as to why that wouldn't really be a viable option, the first being that Calgary Police don't carry tasers. The second being there are more things that can go wrong when a Taser is used, especially on an animal where there is considerable fur (probes not being lodged).

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally posted by Mean Mr. Mustard+Jun 9 2005, 11:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mean Mr. Mustard @ Jun 9 2005, 11:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-FlamesAddiction@Jun 9 2005, 04:31 PM
He should have tasered it.

I don't know if you are serious, but there are two reasons as to why that wouldn't really be a viable option, the first being that Calgary Police don't carry tasers. The second being there are more things that can go wrong when a Taser is used, especially on an animal where there is considerable fur (probes not being lodged). [/b][/quote]
I was only being facetious.

But you would think that some one would have developed a doggy taser by now.

BTW, many things can go wrong with a gun too. I doubt that was a consideration when the cop shot the dog.

[Incinerator]

Originally posted by Mean Mr. Mustard@Jun 9 2005, 11:54 PM
Calgary Police don't carry tasers.

Not for much longer if all goes well, then whiny bitches who talk on the phone after being pulled over can taste the sweet 50,000 volts

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally posted by Incinerator+Jun 10 2005, 02:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Incinerator @ Jun 10 2005, 02:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mean Mr. Mustard@Jun 9 2005, 11:54 PM
Calgary Police don't carry tasers.

Not for much longer if all goes well, then whiny bitches who talk on the phone after being pulled over can taste the sweet 50,000 volts [/b][/quote]
Can they buy their own tasers and carry them?

I remember in an episode of Corner Gas, one of the cops bought his own taser.

[Incinerator]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction+Jun 10 2005, 02:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FlamesAddiction @ Jun 10 2005, 02:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Not for much longer if all goes well, then whiny bitches who talk on the phone after being pulled over can taste the sweet 50,000 volts

Can they buy their own tasers and carry them?

I remember in an episode of Corner Gas, one of the cops bought his own taser. [/b][/quote]
I don't think so, they have to establish a protocol on how to use it as a department before they can use them.

[Patek23]

I've said it a million times, Cops are humans, they mess up and do things they're not supposed to like everyone else. I don't hate cops I dislike them. Being a cop does not make someone a hero or an extremely moral person. Cops do bad things, If everyone truly thinks that all cops do things 100% to the book and are unbiased at all situations than you my friend (not pointing my finger at anyone here) are extremely naive. The cop was probably nervous and scared of dogs, saw the dog running at him and shot it. No going with his judgement and following a protocol thats for comments in the media to smooth things over. Personally the guys an ******* and I hope he gets charged, do I care wether he was a cop who shot the dog or a random guy with a gun who shot the dog, no.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

He was put in a threatening situation and did as he was trained to do. He shot an animal that apparently was being agressive and charging at him. From the information given in the story it is hard to make a judgement on way or the other.... especially given peoples logic of the walking over to the dog. That could mean a 20 meter walk or 2 steps to where the dog lay. Show me something to say that he just saw a dog and decided to shoot it for no reason. If he feels he is being threatened he has every right to act as he did, just like I would expect John Doe on the street to act. He defended himself.

But next time you put your life and your health on the line to protect someone I think you will deserve the title of hero, just like 99% of police officers have.

Edit: what is this disliking the police bull though. I mean they are providing a necessary service to every member of the community. You may have had a few bad experiences, but at the same time to judge the entire community based on the actions of a few would just be foolish. For every police officer who was an ass that I have met I have been able to meet 10 more that are great people, and to dislike them because of the 1 guy seems to be a bit of a stretch.

[Flame On]

I don't know I think the Calgary cops are a bit trigger happy! I mean wasn't it not long ago that a guy was brandishing a sword at some cops? Sure they have to be safe they have to not take over due risks. But they also have to have good judgement not to mention aim! I don't care if you're a jedi you come at me with a sword and I blow your legs off, your out of the picture. Still waving it about? Blow the hand/arm off! Turn it into the Holy Grail!
And why is everyone saying "we don't know the whole story" etc. then in the next breath stating that the dog was attacking or something, we don't know that!
Like I said, I don't know could be entirely justified, I've just heard several incidents somewhat recently where their judgements in fatal shootings have come under question. It's possible that's routine, but I think you get my point.

[CaptainCrunch]

That whole thing about blowing arms and legs off is completely against any kind of police procedure. And besides if you've ever shot a pistol at a moving target, you aim at the center of mass since pistols aren't great for accuracy over 10 yards. If your going to shoot someone thats threatening you, you put him down for good. You don't shoot to wound or warn. You shoot to kill.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Flame On@Jun 9 2005, 11:21 PM
I don't know I think the Calgary cops are a bit trigger happy! I mean wasn't it not long ago that a guy was brandishing a sword at some cops? Sure they have to be safe they have to not take over due risks. But they also have to have good judgement not to mention aim! I don't care if you're a jedi you come at me with a sword and I blow your legs off, your out of the picture. Still waving it about? Blow the hand/arm off! Turn it into the Holy Grail!
And why is everyone saying "we don't know the whole story" etc. then in the next breath stating that the dog was attacking or something, we don't know that!
Like I said, I don't know could be entirely justified, I've just heard several incidents somewhat recently where their judgements in fatal shootings have come under question. It's possible that's routine, but I think you get my point.

Shooting a guy in the hand when he's waving a sword around and coming at you has got to be even harder than it sounds and it sounds damn near impossible. "Blowing his legs off" isn't an option either.

I think they are trained to shoot for the biggest chunk which unfortunately is your sternum, which just so happens to be sitting in front of some rather important plumbing.

It'd be interesting to know if they get trained on where to shoot a dog.

This is a crazy story. A few more details would be good to hear. Sounds like the guy is familiar with German Shepherds. Maybe he plugged the dog because he knows what it was capable of and at the slightest sign of anything he shot it. Or maybe he was in danger. Or both. Who knows.

The dog-owner's "he would'nt hurt a flea" doesn't hold a lot of water for me. I've seen perfectly harmless dogs become rather "excited" and "bitey" when the owner is threatened or even just nervous.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally posted by Snakeeye+Jun 9 2005, 10:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snakeeye @ Jun 9 2005, 10:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

No but thanks for assuming what I was thinking.

What I was actually thinking is that shooting a gun should be a last resort even if it is only at an animal and not a human.

And as I said, it's hard for me to imagine that this was a situation where all other options had been exhausted. But I did acknowledge that it might have been that kind of situation.

That said, if a cop is trained to shoot by reflex, it's hard to blame him for acting on reflex. If we train people to use deadly weapons when confronted, that's what they'll do. But if his life was not in danger, I don't think shooting the dog was justified. Even if he has to take a bite from the animal before they can get it subdued, I would think that would be preferable.

And if the dog is rabid?

If the dog catches the officer in the throat?

I suppose a child should take a bite too, just to be sure the dog is actually attacking him?

How about we use that theory against humans? Should an officer (or anyone) have to take a stab wound from a person with a knife before shooting the attacker? Cause, you know, you might be able to talk the person out of attacking you between the first stab wound and the second.

I am curious as to how you are so informed as to what happened that you cannot believe all other options were exhausted? Since you were obviously there, could you please fill us in on the chain of events? It would allow the rest of us to judge whether this was justified, or whether the cop might have overreacted or misinterpreted the dog's actions and intent. [/b][/quote]
As far as I know, you can treated for rabies. A throat attack seems unlikely, especially since most people would use their arms to block an attempt on that area.

Why bring up humans? We're clearing talking about dogs here. Stay on topic.

Where did I say I know what happened? Can you not argue without putting words in people's mouths?

And let's face it, you're making as many assumptions as anyone here. You're arguing hard against anyone who thinks it might have not been justified which means you're assuming the shooting was justified. Hypocrite.