2012 MLS Thread

[Montana Moe]

A little Valentine's Day video from the Whitecaps to the Timbers. I can feel the love.

Link

I remember that night like it was yesterday, they invited the Timbers to their little housewarming party, then Portland proceeded to act like they owned the place.



Maybe I'm a bit too excited for the season...


Question: Timbers season ticket packages are shipping from Calgary, what company would be producing them?

[Ozy_Flame]

Ahahahaha . . . . Stupid Portland! Love it!

[Muta]

Hahahaha... I love MLS. That Portland / Seattle / Vancouver rivalry is gonna get even better.

Makes me wish Calgary had an MLS team.

[Montana Moe]

Montreal acquired former Fulham/USMNT striker Eddie Johnson, then promptly traded him to Seattle for Lamar Neagle and Mike Fucito.

Two decent players for a guy that lasted a half day with Pumas before getting cut for being out of shape. Sounders fans are less than thrilled.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/articl...-neagle-fucito

[seattleflamer]

Originally Posted by Montana Moe

Montreal acquired former Fulham/USMNT striker Eddie Johnson, then promptly traded him to Seattle for Lamar Neagle and Mike Fucito.

Two decent players for a guy that lasted a half day with Pumas before getting cut for being out of shape. Sounders fans are less than thrilled.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/articl...-neagle-fucito

Johnson has unbelievable talent but I think Montreal won this one with Neagle. He had a break out year this past season. On other hand, Sigi and Hanauer are incredibly shrewd in finding talent and assembling a quality squad.

[Montana Moe]

I know he's had some good history with Sigi, so it wouldn't surprise me if Johnson had a good season.

I like Neagle as well. I'm really hoping Zakuani gets back to form, though it sounds like he won't be 100% for some time.

It sounds like Kris Boyd's paperwork went through, so he should be training with Portland some time this week. The Timbers signed MF Franck Songo'o, a former Barcelona product. He's been banging some great crosses in the preseason, hopefully it'll stay that way.

[Montana Moe]

New Timbers striker Kris Boyd does a bit of an "exit interview" with the Scottish Sun on his way out of the country...

I like his attitude:

"There will always be people who point to what I DON'T do. That's just the way it is, but my goals record stands up against anybody. Listen, I know for a fact there are better players out there. But what I'll do is score.
"Thinking about it, in some ways it's my goals record that kills me as a player.
"When people look at someone who scores a lot they think he should be an exceptional player. I'm first to admit I'm not.
"I know there have been games when I've been posted missing, and yet walked off the pitch with the match ball.
"But while people can argue I can't do this or that, no one can say I don't score enough goals as a striker."

[Montana Moe]

Single game tickets for the Timbers went on sale this morning. I logged on as soon as they went on sale and still wasn't fast enough to get tickets vs. Seattle.

I did get tickets vs. L.A. and the August match vs. Vancouver. Looking forward to the madness!

[shermanator]

Sportsnet is picking up 6 TFC games in 2012. Here is a link to the TV sched for those who follow the team. Looks like I can get all but one game!

http://the11.ca/2012/02/24/sportsnet...dcast-picture/

[emti]

Has any one heard of or know of a possibility of an MLS team coming to calgary? I would love to see them come to Calgary!

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by emti

Has any one heard of or know of a possibility of an MLS team coming to calgary? I would love to see them come to Calgary!

Unfortunately Calgary doesn't have a great track record for professional soccer, so I'd have to think that it'll be a long time, if ever, that we see top tier soccer in this city.

I agree that it would be great, however, but a lot has to happen first. A reasonable place to play (McMahon is too big and terrible for watching soccer) would be a good starting point, but I'm not sure who would front the cash for that.

[Matty81]

The next logical step for a city with Calgary's size and diversity would be the NASL, the league below MLS that Montreal just moved up from. The last group even started lower, in the PDL to really establish a bedrock.

Edmonton and Ottawa (expansion next year I think) have teams in the NASL, there has been a lot of talk Hamilton will be joining shortly with that new stadium.

Unfortunately, there is no suitable facility in Calgary, which is what caused the last group to fail. A group needs land somewhere central they could grow (or not) as demand required like they did in Montreal, from 14,000 to 20,000 when they stepped up to MLS. I think even 6-8,000 would be OK to start with in Calgary.

You're talking about needing someone to invest big dollars though. Calgary is really lacking a medium sized stadium since Mewata got leveled to build that skatepark.

[shermanator]

Mewata would've been a great place for a soccer team to play. I don't recall how dumpy it was however...

I hope FC Edmonton is successful in growing support for the sport up north, so that Calgary investors could see the success, and get a team started here, which would come with a natural rivalry.

[Ozy_Flame]

Edmonton will get an MLS team long before Calgary does, and that's assuming they even bother to grow soccer big enough to attract a franchise.

Calgary has good, grassroots soccer support but nowhere near what is needed to sustain a professional soccer team. We're better off getting an Arena Football League team first since football is a much more popular sport around here.

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Edmonton will get an MLS team long before Calgary does, and that's assuming they even bother to grow soccer big enough to attract a franchise.

Calgary has good, grassroots soccer support but nowhere near what is needed to sustain a professional soccer team. We're better off getting an Arena Football League team first since football is a much more popular sport around here.

IMO, neither Calgary or Edmonton will get to MLS, ever. It's NASL or bust for them. I think an NASL team in Calgary can succeed if done right. Without a stadium, it will be wrong from the beginning.

FC Edmonton struggled at the gate last year (averaging just over 1800 a game) because of playing on a university football field. I'm curious to see how they do in their second year, as they've moved to a new field (although where exactly has not been announced yet)

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Matty81

The next logical step for a city with Calgary's size and diversity would be the NASL, the league below MLS that Montreal just moved up from. The last group even started lower, in the PDL to really establish a bedrock.

And that is where they found most, if not all, of their success.

Originally Posted by Matty81

Unfortunately, there is no suitable facility in Calgary, which is what caused the last group to fail. A group needs land somewhere central they could grow (or not) as demand required like they did in Montreal, from 14,000 to 20,000 when they stepped up to MLS. I think even 6-8,000 would be OK to start with in Calgary.

One of the benefits of a PDL club is that the owner can much more easily ask the government for funding due to the fact that the club is an amateur organisation. Although the stadium would be smaller, it would also be much cheaper.

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Edmonton will get an MLS team long before Calgary does, and that's assuming they even bother to grow soccer big enough to attract a franchise.

Calgary has good, grassroots soccer support but nowhere near what is needed to sustain a professional soccer team. We're better off getting an Arena Football League team first since football is a much more popular sport around here.

I don't think it is a problem of Calgary not being able to support a professional club but rather Alberta only being able to support one. When they were by themselves, the Storm and Mustangs probably had as much success as FC Edmonton.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

We're better off getting an Arena Football League team first since football is a much more popular sport around here.

This is a common misconception. Its one I hear all the time in Ontario from all the "experts" from Toronto. The idea that Calgary is a blue-collar football/hockey only crowd is a tired and outdated stereotype, and with the massive population growth of immigrants, inaccurate to boot. Reality is, hockey and football are the only real "major" league sports that have survived more than 5 years.

If you can get 2000 people to watch PDL soccer, and 2000 people to attend a poorly advertised friendly between Brazilian reserves and a makeshift Calgary Select squad, there's a base and appetite. I was just at a world club tournament in Detroit with River Plate, Pumas and two Hungarian Div 1 teams that was heavily publicized that did worse, and in the Superdome no less. Yet, broke and oversaturated (NHL, MLB, NBA, NFL, NCAAx2) Detroit is a better MLS market than Calgary?

Anyway, the CFL is about as niche a league as it gets. The main reason it does so well in Calgary is simply that there's nothing else even remotely close to major league in Calgary from when the Flames hang them up in April-June (lets hope, lol) to September. Baseball is a joke here, Basketball is non-existent, and the soccer entries that have tried have been too mickey-mouse or placed in too improper a venue to ever be taken seriously.

Which brings me to the two real reasons we haven't seen top division soccer since the Boomers (11000 average attendance in 1980 for a city of ~500,000 is pretty good, and would be in MLS range today, only reasons they folded was Skalbania being broke, and that league being in a death spiral). Sadly, these two reasons also explain why we may not again for some time.

1. Stadia. McMahon Stadium is suitable for the wrecking ball, and little else, unless 30-100 million dollars is found to bring it up to code. It works for the CFL (for now) because of the niche nature of that league, and the die-hard attitude of its supporters. But in 3-5 years, when McMahon is the lousiest stadium left, that will likely change. Hellard and Foothills are too small at ~2000 each. But, rumor is FC Edmonton's stadium plan is to play at Clarke (1200 seats) and add about 2000 temp seating... so Edmonton may be setting a precedent that allows these two facilities to be in play for a Calgary NASL franchise. Except for reason 2...

2. Calgary is too big for minor league sports, but too small for major league sports. This is an affluent city with a lot of money, and with ~1.5 million people within an hour's drive, big enough to support NHL, MLS and CFL. (Hitmen are the exception because of Hockey's prominence in Canadian culture and psyche) Trouble is, Calgary would also be one of the two smallest MLS centres, with Salt Lake City. All the previous soccer entries have been in weak leagues, or owned by people with no money/equity, who had to fold before the team could establish a fan base. I suspect NASL may also be too "minor league" to be accepted by the Calgary media and sports fan. MLS would be embraced. Trouble is, does the MLS accept "small fish" Calgary in a big pond, or does NASL accept a large and affluent market that may not appreciate the small pond of Division 2 soccer.

Edmonton lacks the corporate backing for MLS, I suspect they don't get a serious look unless they market themselves as "FC Alberta," and make a serious effort to be a shared team with several matches in Calgary. Only way there's MLS in Calgary is also as a shared team with similar treatment to Edmonton, and in a refurbished/rebuilt McMahon.

NASL needs more time to mold into a truly viable league before a Calgary entry can be considered. It barely works in Edmonton, and that is in a much less "sports snobbish" city.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

Edmonton lacks the corporate backing for MLS, I suspect they don't get a serious look unless they market themselves as "FC Alberta," and make a serious effort to be a shared team with several matches in Calgary. Only way there's MLS in Calgary is also as a shared team with similar treatment to Edmonton, and in a refurbished/rebuilt McMahon.

I don't disagree with the Calgary being too large for minor pro / too small for major leagues, but I can't see an "FC Alberta" or a similar variant working. Sharing a team between Calgary and Edmonton would fracture and inhibit a very fragile fanbase - Alberta fans are far more fickle with their urban-centric rivalries than say, the "Saskatchewan Roughriders" sort of scenario. We have different NHL, CFL and various other teams that, over the course of sports history, has created a dichotomy-based relationship between two cities that IMO would not receive a joint-team very well.

Add that to the fact that Calgary would get what - 8 to 10 games tops on a home field, and you have a fan base that barely gets to see a home game every year, has a distant relationship with the players and the team brand, and can't easily go up to Edmonton to support the squad due to distance and time.

"Team Alberta" works for curling because its a niche sport; the same cannot be said for soccer. There is just too much rivalry/territorial/extreme marketing and management issues to go that route.

[Muta]

I`m still in awe at the fact that a replacement stadium for McMahon isn`t seriously being considered at this point in time.

This city has a tremendous base of wealth, and a new McMahon stadium - an INDOOR stadium, mind you, would be the logical next step for the Stamps, the University of Calgary and all subsequent events you could have in there.

MLS could become a viable option in Calgary once a roofed stadium is built. Our climate is just not favourable towards soccer to have a team play outside. Soccer WILL succeed when people know they can watch a professional franchise inside.

Regina is getting ready to break ground for their new stadium, and I`m still baffled Calgary can`t get their act in order. We badly need a new football-soccer-concert stadium. We have money, just no one is prepared to take the next serious step.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I don't disagree with the Calgary being too large for minor pro / too small for major leagues, but I can't see an "FC Alberta" or a similar variant working. Sharing a team between Calgary and Edmonton would fracture and inhibit a very fragile fanbase - Alberta fans are far more fickle with their urban-centric rivalries than say, the "Saskatchewan Roughriders" sort of scenario. We have different NHL, CFL and various other teams that, over the course of sports history, has created a dichotomy-based relationship between two cities that IMO would not receive a joint-team very well.

Add that to the fact that Calgary would get what - 8 to 10 games tops on a home field, and you have a fan base that barely gets to see a home game every year, has a distant relationship with the players and the team brand, and can't easily go up to Edmonton to support the squad due to distance and time.

"Team Alberta" works for curling because its a niche sport; the same cannot be said for soccer. There is just too much rivalry/territorial/extreme marketing and management issues to go that route.

You're right, its an imperfect solution, but a combined market of ~3 million (capable of buying merchandise, tickets and watching on TV), that has significant disposable income, competitive taxation and no major league sports saturation would make the MLS take note far more than either city individually (providing a reasonable business plan). A 2.5 hour drive is distant, but I think if most are weekend games, it could be overcome to an extent. It would take some getting used to though for Edmontonians and Calgarians going to each other's stadiums as fans of the same team, but I think the Albertan identity would be played up to overcome that somewhat.

Personally, I think the Edmonton-Calgary rivalry has diminished quite a bit anyway. For example, I would argue that Vancouver has become the far more hated team in hockey, and Saskatchewan has become the more hated team in football. Who thought you'd see Edmonton and Calgary co-host something like the World Junior Hockey Championships, something I dare say would be unthinkable 20 years ago.

I think good marketing could overcome that issue by emphasizing that neither city is a big fan of Vancouver or Toronto, and promoting rivalries with them. Ironically, the WHA Edmonton Oilers started out as the "Alberta Oilers," and a team meant to be shared between the two cities. So the idea isn't without precedent.

As for management, the team would have to have its head office in one of the two cities, and very little initial infrastructure in the other, save for a ticket office and merchandising hub.

For games it would essentially be a larger scale version of what Toronto does with the Buffalo Bills. Lets pretend "Alberta FC" is MLS' 20th franchise for simpler numbers. They'd play ~40 games per season. So 20 home games, 15 in Calgary, and 5 in Edmonton, or vice versa. Or more simply perhaps, all league games in one city, and all cup games in the other.

Its a hail mary proposal for sure, but I think without combining, both cities may never see MLS (so there would never be a rivalry anyway... either just Edmonton, or just Calgary with no support from the other city). Should an FC Alberta come into being, fans would catch on to the fact that its either going to be Team Alberta v. Vancouver, Toronto, etc., having to cheer for far flung cities like Vancouver, Seattle or Toronto, or losing out on the only other attainable major sports league for Alberta.

Frankly, I'm not sure Calgary sports fans (or sports media) will ever be content with being in an inferior division to Montreal, Vancouver and Toronto. Calgary may be the distant 4th market in Canada by size, but its also by far the richest per capita which allows the city to punch above its weight a fair amount... the too big for minor/too small for major issue that we agree on.

Having FC Edmonton puts Edmonton a little ahead in the race for a team. While their owners talk MLS long term, I don't see them getting on the MLS radar without being able to drag in Calgary as a secondary market, or co-host. (As a side note, I'm sort of shocked that FC Edmonton has made no attempt to build relations in Calgary, with no marketing in Calgary for weekend trips to see pro soccer, or even friendlies against AMSL teams, or Calgary United FC of the extremely mickey mouse CMISL.)

Frankly, it's MLS only to get the casual fan and corporate fan, and anything below that being at odds with the culture of major league or bust... but I don't think that means Calgary isn't a viable soccer market, just means anything less requires a big plan, smart moves and a lot of money relative to the division (and probably government assistance on bringing a stadium up to code).