Stronach crosses the floor

[Radically Red]

Originally posted by Hakan+May 17 2005, 03:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Hakan @ May 17 2005, 03:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-KevanGuy@May 17 2005, 08:02 AM
This is unreal. I cannot believe she would pull BS like this so close to a confidence vote. What an absolute slap to the face of democracy. Selfishly selling out her constituents for power and, presumably, money. Just sickening.

Where is that article from last week about Conservative MPs being offered cabinet positions by the Liberals? I guess the proof is in the pudding.

What a disgusting individual.

Did you read the article?

She said her concerns were exactly FOR her constituents, the definition of democratic representation. If she voted against the government then all the budget lines for city funding would be cancelled. Coming from Toronto she didn't want to see that. Also, she was increasingly unsupportive of the party's policies. That's democratic representation as well.

I for one am very glad. Not to see the conservatives screwed but to see the actual really good work of Parliament over the past 6 months not go to waste. When was the last time parliament was so progressive and deliberative? It would have been a shame to see all that work flushed down the toilet. [/b][/quote]
So her constituents wanted a liberal representing them?? If they did they would have voted for one.

Wonder if she even bothered to ask those she "represents" if they wanted her to make this move.

[albertGQ]

Does this mean Peter Mackay will jump ship to the Liberals as well?

[Reaper]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch@May 17 2005, 09:14 AM
She's just further proving that democracy doesn't work.

I'm not sure that I would go so far as to say that Democracy doesn't work on the topic of MP's changing the party affiliation.

The people in her riding will have their chance to make their decision on whether she is fit to represent them in the next election for the seat of the riding.

[Resolute 14]

Originally posted by albertGQ@May 17 2005, 08:20 AM
Does this mean Peter Mackay will jump ship to the Liberals as well?

Why would he? He's the guy that will succeed Harper as CPC leader.

[Mike F]

Originally posted by fotze@May 17 2005, 07:53 AM
conservative government beholden to the seperatists

What is that referring to?

My guess is that because the Conservatives had to get the Seperatists on their side to bring down the gov't, should the Conservatives win the next election the Seperatists would be due favours.

It's a pretty good argument. As many have already said, the seperatists have traditionally voted with the Liberals, so it's hard to see them crossing over to team up with the Conservatives without at least an informal deal of some kind.

[albertGQ]

Originally posted by Snakeeye+May 17 2005, 09:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snakeeye @ May 17 2005, 09:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-albertGQ@May 17 2005, 08:20 AM
Does this mean Peter Mackay will jump ship to the Liberals as well?

Why would he? He's the guy that will succeed Harper as CPC leader. [/b][/quote]
Cuz him and Belinda are dating

[Mike F]

Originally posted by Radically Red@May 17 2005, 08:18 AM
So her constituents wanted a liberal representing them?? If they did they would have voted for one.

Wonder if she even bothered to ask those she "represents" if they wanted her to make this move.

She will still have to get re-elected.

It's hard to believe that she made this move without doing some research to satisfy herself that the majority of people in her riding would approve next election.

She couldn't be that stupid, could she?

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally posted by Mike F+May 17 2005, 09:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike F @ May 17 2005, 09:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Radically Red@May 17 2005, 08:18 AM
So her constituents wanted a liberal representing them?? If they did they would have voted for one.

Wonder if she even bothered to ask those she "represents" if they wanted her to make this move.

She will still have to get re-elected.

It's hard to believe that she made this move without doing some research to satisfy herself that the majority of people in her riding would approve next election.

She couldn't be that stupid, could she? [/b][/quote]
Sure she could. She lives in Ontario. I'm pretty sure if there was an inkling that she wouldn't get elected as a liberal in her current riding, Paul Martin would have no problem giving her the nod to run in some other riding. Sucks to be whoever it is that's gonna lose thier job becaue of her.

[jonesy]

Originally posted by Mike F+May 17 2005, 03:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike F @ May 17 2005, 03:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Radically Red@May 17 2005, 08:18 AM
So her constituents wanted a liberal representing them?? If they did they would have voted for one.

Wonder if she even bothered to ask those she "represents" if they wanted her to make this move.

She will still have to get re-elected.

It's hard to believe that she made this move without doing some research to satisfy herself that the majority of people in her riding would approve next election.

She couldn't be that stupid, could she? [/b][/quote]
There is the distinct possibility that she won her riding based on popularity and 'wow' factor. I suspect that, not unlike a junior high school council election, she may still win a vote based on popularity.

In fact I would argue that she could win her riding whether running for Liberals, Conservatives or NDP.

Perhaps that is partly why Mr. Crunch feels democracy has taken a hit.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

As fotze said, this will do nothing to hurt her political career.

If your ambition is to land a government post in what is effectively a single party state, you had better be with the ruling party.

This isn't about money, its about power. The one thing Stronach doesn't have, but fortunately you can buy, is the god-like status of being a federal liberal in ontario.

You'd think she'd come up with a better excuse than the seperatist agenda though. Social issues, health care - lots of issues are more plausible. Not that it matters. She could have said the little green martian from the Flinstones whispered it in her ear and no one in Ontario would care.

[Resolute 14]

I love the political "experts" CBC Newsworld has on right now.

I swear if Harper stated that "Women should continue to be allowed abortions for any reason at any time", the woman supporting the Liberals would immediately call for the complete banning of abortions. The Conservative expert is no better. Talk about partisanship at it's best!

[MrMastodonFarm]

Wow, what a hag. Not that I care for the Converative party, but what a selfish move. My already low thoughts about her have gone lower.

Horrible speaker too, like others have said.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally posted by Bend it like Bourgeois@May 17 2005, 03:37 PM
You'd think she'd come up with a better excuse than the seperatist agenda though. Social issues, health care - lots of issues are more plausible.

Well the CBC article I read specifically mentioned that she doesn't agree with the conservatives on same sex marriage.

[KevanGuy]

Originally posted by Hakan+May 17 2005, 09:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Hakan @ May 17 2005, 09:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-KevanGuy@May 17 2005, 08:02 AM
This is unreal.# I cannot believe she would pull BS like this so close to a confidence vote.# What an absolute slap to the face of democracy.# Selfishly selling out her constituents for power and, presumably, money.# Just sickening.#

Where is that article from last week about Conservative MPs being offered cabinet positions by the Liberals?# I guess the proof is in the pudding.

What a disgusting individual.

Did you read the article?

She said her concerns were exactly FOR her constituents, the definition of democratic representation. If she voted against the government then all the budget lines for city funding would be cancelled. Coming from Toronto she didn't want to see that. Also, she was increasingly unsupportive of the party's policies. That's democratic representation as well.

I for one am very glad. Not to see the conservatives screwed but to see the actual really good work of Parliament over the past 6 months not go to waste. When was the last time parliament was so progressive and deliberative? It would have been a shame to see all that work flushed down the toilet. [/b][/quote]
I don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth. I don't understand how you could be so naive to believe she switched in the best interest of her constituents. This is the most selfish and transparent political move in quite some time.

And not only is she a Cabinet Minister but she is apparently also in charge of instituting the changes recommended by Gomery. What a joke.

[Cheese]

First off Im getting p*ssED off at those of you who paint Ontario with the same brush...we arent all Liberals.
Secondly, Stronach does not represent 1. Ontario or 2. Toronto. She is in Newmarket which is about an hour north of TO. Get your comments straight before speaking out.
website... http://www.belinda.ca/default2.asp

Her riding was Liberal for quite some time before she ran in the last election....I dont think they will care one way or the other...it is a predominantly blue blood area.

[Hakan]

Originally posted by Bring_Back_Shantz+May 17 2005, 08:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Bring_Back_Shantz @ May 17 2005, 08:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Hakan@May 17 2005, 09:09 AM

Did you read the article?

She said her concerns were exactly FOR her constituents, the definition of democratic representation. If she voted against the government then all the budget lines for city funding would be cancelled. Coming from Toronto she didn't want to see that. Also, she was increasingly unsupportive of the party's policies. That's democratic representation as well.

I for one am very glad. Not to see the conservatives screwed but to see the actual really good work of Parliament over the past 6 months not go to waste. When was the last time parliament was so progressive and deliberative? It would have been a shame to see all that work flushed down the toilet.

Allright, I'll give you that.
But if she is doing this for her constituents then why did she completely switch parties and take a cabinet position.
Seems to me she can best help her constituents in this case by becomming an independant. She doesn't screw over all the people in here riding who voted for a conservative, and she can still vote for the budget. She was bought. [/b][/quote]
First, I believe the people of Belinda's riding were voting for the person first and party second. The data to support this claim is that reform/conservative has been very weak in the Toronto area. Belinda, being a star candidate, most likely won her riding in spite of her party.

Second, if you were in her riding would you rather have some schmoe opposition party member, a now increasingly impotent independent position or a cabinet minister? Party affiliation aside, you'd want the minister, that's a no-brainer. Therefore she was acting in the interest of her constituents.

[Bertuzzied]

Even though i applaud this move by Stronach, she is still the worst speech giver ever! Robot lady can show that she can read.

Hey if Harper knew that she was going to jump, isn't it better to kick her out of the party first? Sucks to be him.

But Harper says he's relieved.

He says better that it happened now than during an election campaign.

The Tory leader says he saw the defection coming, after hearing Stronach's grumblings about the impact of voting against the federal budget.

[ernie]

If she was truly concerned about passing things in the budget for her constituents she simply removes herself from the party and sits as an independent. Her vote is worth the same as an independent.

This is a move by a person who only got into politics for power. She wanted power as opposition leader and didn't get it and was never really put into a position of influence in the party (partly because of inexperience and partly because, well she couldn't be trusted IMO). This is completely a move based on power. She got a little more and now has a lot of influence in a party. It don't mind people crossing the floor as party policy and direction is fluxional and sometimes one outgrows the other. However, it takes time and that is certainly not the case here. The platform and direction is the same as when she joined and ran for the party. It rubs me the wrong way and should to any supporter of any party. It's a move that doesn't make sense given the party she went to and has now completely tied herself to is in the middle of a scandal that may very well be from the top down of the current government. If not for power than for what? It's not for her constituents who voted conservative (not liberal). It;s not to help pass the budget as she can do that as an independent. It leaves one thing...a promise of power.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

This is a huge blow to the Conservatives. Budget vote aside, it does even greater damage in appearing to validate what many Ontarians think - that the big bad Conservatives are just too right wing. Devastating.

If the Conservatives really want to counter this before the next election, they'll have to swap leaders for someone more appealing (read: right of center) to Ontarians.

And all this talk about her doing this for money? Rubbish. She's a billionaire, with a capital B. Bend it like Bourgeois is dead on the money, its the power she seeks.

Pretty crappy cabinet position she gets though, that's chewed up the last few people that took it. US Army recruiter might be an easier job right now.

[Radically Red]

How does someone go from the bashing the "Enemy" to being placed in the heart of the enemy leadership you were bashing before... atleast stick to you principles. Sit as an independent if you dont like your current party..

But hey its the liberals its just par for the course.