Mass Casualties at Reno Air Show [Crash]

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

What the hell is going on with these air shows this summer? Unreal.

We've gotta get fighting out of airshows.

[RedJester]

I was watching Anderson 360 last night, and there were a couple of pilots from Ontario who saw the crash in Reno happen, and they suggested that it looked very much like a high speed stall that sent the plane plummeting to the ground. Kind of like when you throw a paper airplane too hard.

Evidently this was the last heat of the day, and the plane that crashed was fighting for 2nd place, and it was practically neck and neck with another plane when it suddenly jolted skyward and then spun back around towards earth. This was also the "unlimited" bracket in terms of what the pilots and mechanics can do to modify the planes, (although I am sure there are certain limits to what they can get actually away with,) and by the sounds of it, the pilot just pushed it a little too hard and ended up in a worst case scenario with practically no room to rectify his situation. Too much speed, not enough lift, and not enough room to pull out of it.

Of course this is all just speculation, so take it for what it's worth.

[drewboy12]

cnn has a picture up of a piece on the tail that is broken.

[Raekwon]

holy crap and another video, this one shows the impact.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/09/17/nev...html?hpt=hp_t1

[Bigtime]

Looks like the trim tab on the elevator went:

[Yasa]

Originally Posted by fotze

Can you dumb it down there, pointdexter?

Plane broke.

[Leon]

I find it odd that the trim coming off would cause a complete lack of control.

Just from personal flying experience (which is limited, ~100 hours), the trim elevator simply acts as an aid to the elevator (the part of the tail that produces upward or downward lift). It's not necessary for stable flight, it just eases the strength with which you need to apply a pulling or pushing force to the controls. Losing one side to me wouldn't offset the sideways movement of the plane enough to necessitate a crash, perhaps other elements were involved. The plane literally just broke. Very sad.

Perhaps some more experienced aviators could shed some light on this.

[Bigtime]

A trim tab going on a plane like this when it is doing 400+mph is a whole different ball game than you and I tooling around in a Cessna though.

Apparently this happened before in another unlimited class racer, however instead of crashing it pitched up right away, exceeding 10g's and the pilot passed out, when they came to the aircraft was a 9000'!

Some quotes from others at the AvCanada forums:

Warning - speculation based on the picture - If a trim tab gets disconnected it can flutter. A fluttering trim tab now acts like a boost tab and could induce flutter on the elevator, a fluttering elevator would mean the joystick would be jack hammering back and forth 100's of times a second making roll control impossible....

From the 1999 race.

, pilot Bob Hannah had a wild ride when the elevator trim tab broke off the aircraft and pitched the racer up at approximately 10 G's. Hannah took a G-induced nap but recovered consciousness high over the race course. The flaps had been mis-rigged, and led to undesirable pitch trim forces. At the speeds they were flying at Reno, the tab was sticking way out in the breeze and it had fluttered off.

[sclitheroe]

I'm going to guess that the trim tab didn't result in the crash - it could have caused enough of a change in pitch to cause a stall, though, which others have already noted as a possible cause.

[Bigtime]

Damn, looks like two of the victims were a retired Air Canada captain and his wife:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle2170658/

[T@T]

Originally Posted by noel

I find it odd that the trim coming off would cause a complete lack of control.

I never had the opportunity to fly a P-51 but from what I'm told it is a bit hairy under normal conditions due to a thin wing and small tail feathers.

Unfortunately the trim tab didn't just "come" off. It flapping in the wind turned this high performance airplane into sort of a corkscrew I'm thinking.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Raekwon

holy crap and another video, this one shows the impact.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/09/17/nev...html?hpt=hp_t1

Just by the throttle sound of this vid makes me wonder if the G's got to him...seems like he was still full bore at inpact.

[Bigtime]

Not sure where this is coming from but it was on another website, some info from the telemetry data:

Telemetry downloaded from Galloping Ghost revealed an 11g pullup, fuel flow interrupted on the way up, and then the engine restarted when fuel flow resumed at the top of the arc. The aircraft was making 105 inches of MP on the way down.

[sclitheroe]

Is it correct to say that these racers are also significantly higher performing than their wartime variants? I'm not sure how the aircraft that crashed compares performance wise to a production P-51.

[T@T]

If the 11 G's are true he was most likely asleep at impact.

[Flashpoint]

News report this morning (Good Morning America) reported that the P-51 had been heavily modified in the months prior to the race, and that the systems were still in the process of testing.

It apparently had shorter wings and frame.

I'm not too sure about the philosophy of re-engineering a 70 year old piece of machinery to squeeze additional speed out of it, when you know there are going to be spectators in the immediate vicinity.

I love old aircraft and I love air shows. But I've never really felt I'm being asked to assume much risk by attending until now.

[Bigtime]

While it is true that these unlimited category racers are based on WWII fighters, there is most likely very little left in them that is original. They are heavily modified and designed for nothing but pure speed.

I think almost all of these unlimited aircraft snip the wings for speed, and the Galloping Ghost even went so far as to eliminate the cooling scoop under the fuselage:

Power and reliability would come from Shanholtzer’s hot-rodded V-12 Merlin. In a big move, the drag reduction part of the equation came from removing the Mustang’s iconic belly scoop. The function of the radiator and oil cooler would be combined in a heat exchanger, and that would be placed in a tank of water/methanol. As hot coolant and engine oil flowed through the exchanger, heat would transfer to the water/meth where it would boil and vent overboard. The whole idea was to have zero cooling drag on the airplane. In fact, the only air coming into the airplane is fed to the engine. Since the late 1940s, The Galloping Ghost is only the fourth racing P-51 to undergo this surgery. If done right, it has some big benefits to offer.

There are a lot of people involved in modifying and flying these planes too:

To those unfamiliar with the Air Races, each plane has a large pit crew of engineers and mechanics, who in many cases completely rebuild parts, including the engines, between each race. I guess anywhere between 6 to 25 guys and gals, all highly trained.

[speede5]

Apparently there are pictures showing the pilot slumped over in the cockpit, which would be the likely result of an 11g pull. If the aircraft had a tendency to climb at speed, he would have flown with full elevator trim down, and when the tab broke off would have experienced an immediate pull.


As for mods, these planes are completely experimental, you name it they try it. Clipped wings streamlined fuses, completely modified canopies, fairings, etc. Nothing wrong with that, as that is what the experimental category is for, but it means they are likely pushing the limits in many areas.

I have been to these races and the planes are pretty exciting to watch, and stare at. If you have any interest in warbirds or aviation in general you can spend hours poring over the mods on each plane. They really have a interesting mindset to pushing the limits of the machine.

[Hack&Lube]

The P-51 was also heavily modified from what I read. The tail was cut off completely and reattached when shortened considerably so it could do more stunts.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

The P-51 was also heavily modified from what I read. The tail was cut off completely and reattached when shortened considerably so it could do more stunts.

If by "do more stunts" you mean fly ridiculously fast. These aircraft are not being modified like this to do aerobatics.