Possible Bush Assassination Attempt in Tblisi

[Mike F]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan@May 18 2005, 05:28 PM
Mike...what absolute, definitive statement did I make?

Oh, come on Dis

A live grenade with a pin pulled doesn't get picked up and wisked away by anyone... You'll never convince me that someone threw a grenade intending to blow up the President and it just happened to be a dud. Sorry.

You didn't exactly leaving the door open for the possibility that this was a live grenade. Pretty definitive in my book.

[Mike F]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan@May 18 2005, 05:28 PM
I would like to see some numbers on what percentage of live grenades never explode. I'd bet it's extremely low.

From one source:

"But some types of the grenades fail to explode on impact as much as 16 percent of the time, according to official military figures. Battlefield commanders have reported failure rates as high as 40 percent."

Is that extremely low?

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally posted by Mike F+May 19 2005, 03:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike F @ May 19 2005, 03:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Displaced Flames fan@May 18 2005, 05:28 PM
Mike...what absolute, definitive statement did I make?

Oh, come on Dis

A live grenade with a pin pulled doesn't get picked up and wisked away by anyone... You'll never convince me that someone threw a grenade intending to blow up the President and it just happened to be a dud. Sorry.

You didn't exactly leaving the door open for the possibility that this was a live grenade. Pretty definitive in my book. [/b][/quote]
Well, the second underlined statement had to do with my willingness to buy the story as it was being assumed by the media...that has nothing to do with whether it was possible or not.

The other statement I made was a reaction to the one story that I read on it, which I believe was the initial link. That story made it sound as if someone picked up the grenade right after it was thrown (A Georgian security officer) and rushed it away from the crowd. Finding a grenade on the ground and picking it up is very different than picking one up that is thrown, bounces and rolls to your feet.

Again, the headline was premature and overly dramatic based on the information at the time of the initial story.

Yes, it's possible and I never said it wasn't. But my opinion on it was definitive and that was that it was probably NOT a live grenade. The FBI statement makes me wrong.

Seems like a one in a million coincidence that it didn't go off. Unless it was homemade or something. I think it's a stretch to assume that somebody pulled the pin on a perfectly good grenade, tossed it, it hit a kid (is that sick or what?) bounces to the ground and doesn't detonate. I'm still skeptical.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally posted by jonesy@May 19 2005, 03:50 AM

I just have to say that is an incredible position to take. Unless you personally see it with your own eyes you won't believe it?

You want some 'numbers'?? What numbers would make you believe?

50% of grenades detonate when thrown?
99% of grenades detonate? I mean, shinguard, even if that was the case, there always has to be that one that doesn't go off.

Another thing, how do grenades go off? Is it strictly a timer or is a pressure thing caused by impact? Or the effect of removing pressure on the handle after removing the pin and hurling it?

1. I never said I wouldn't believe anything unless I saw it.
2. I brought up numbers purely out of curiosity.....I wasn't asking anybody to prove anything with numbers. I was simply interested to know what failure rates looked like in comparison to what I assumed them to be.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally posted by Mike F+May 19 2005, 04:03 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike F @ May 19 2005, 04:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Displaced Flames fan@May 18 2005, 05:28 PM
I would like to see some numbers on what percentage of live grenades never explode. I'd bet it's extremely low.

From one source:

"But some types of the grenades fail to explode on impact as much as 16 percent of the time, according to official military figures. Battlefield commanders have reported failure rates as high as 40 percent."

Is that extremely low? [/b][/quote]
No, it's not. Very surprising.

One article I read this evening suggested that it might have been homemade as well. I'm sure the home cooked ones are even more prone to failure.

Well, you know what they say about assumptions.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction+May 19 2005, 12:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FlamesAddiction @ May 19 2005, 12:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

If it was an assassination attempt, it'll go down as one of the poorest ever.

Was the guy who flew a plane into the white house an assassin?

100 feet is only 30 steps (for me, 1 step = 1 metre anyway).

If the person threw it from a long distance, then that is pretty close. Still not the greatest throw, but it's not the same as if someone tried to shoot him and missed by 100 feet.. [/b][/quote]
funny thing with a fragmentation grenade.

Under the right conditions, a grenade landing and exploding 30 yards away from you can still cause some pretty wicked fragmentation wounds.

Within 10 yards, if your standing in the fan of an explosion, it will probably hole you pretty good.

[Five-hole]

Originally posted by Agamemnon@May 18 2005, 05:18 PM
If it was an assassination attempt, it'll go down as one of the poorest ever.

Well, you know what the saying is in Tblisi....if at first you don't succeed....something something.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally posted by Winsor_Pilates+May 19 2005, 03:33 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Winsor_Pilates @ May 19 2005, 03:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

You geezers. "pwned" is the more common one. )

I really hate that one. I keep seeing it everywhere. It is actually pernounced "powned". Where did the P come from? It just seems like an arbitrary letter. [/b][/quote]
I think it's because the 'P' is just to the right of the 'O' on the keyboard. I'm guessing it was just a common enough misspelling that it started to get general use.

That's my theory anyway.

EDIT: Whoops, didn't see Faid1's post before I put up my theory...

[Five-hole]

Read the thread first, noob!


So pwned.

[dustygoon]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan@May 11 2005, 01:59 AM
Not even close to the same thing and you know it.

A live grenade with a pin pulled doesn't get picked up and wisked away by anyone.

I would say there was a mock assassination attempt. You'll never convince me that someone threw a grenade intending to blow up the President and it just happened to be a dud. Sorry.

Possible assassination attempt? Sure, I guess that would be accurate in a literal sense. A little overly dramatic, but accurate.

I haven't been around grenades but i have experienced dud amunition. It happens often. I would bet that the cave dweller who chucked the grenade keeps his instruments of death in conditions that are far from ideal.

[InTheSlot]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan@May 10 2005, 04:39 PM
A grenade that didn't explode is an assassination attempt?

Of course it is. If it HAD exploded, it wouldn't have been an attempt, it would've been a success :P

[Pileon]

Originally posted by InTheSlot+May 19 2005, 12:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (InTheSlot @ May 19 2005, 12:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Displaced Flames fan@May 10 2005, 04:39 PM
A grenade that didn't explode is an assassination attempt?

Of course it is. If it HAD exploded, it wouldn't have been an attempt, it would've been a success :P [/b][/quote]
If a tree falls in the forest and there's no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?

Think we might get the Bush-mobile out of this? I wonder if this changes the administration's approach to letting George out in public?