DECK Questions

[Clarkey]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I'm concerned it's so soft that the deck will be a marked up mess. I was at Totem tonight and I scratched the cedar with my fingernail and it left an impression. Love the price, though.

Visually, it's beauty. It's ok if it get's scratched up a bit, it's not hardwood flooring.

[zamler]

Cedar is amazing wood, but yes it is very soft. It depends largely on the usage it gets, if you have a high traffic area, then cedar IMO is a bad choice. Another thing to consider is some cedar is not what it used to be, the maturity of the trees harvested means the wood is not as resistant as traditionally we are used to. Keep that in mind (This actually applies to other types of wood as well in my experience).

Ipe is expensive, but it will last a lifetime with little to no maintenance, which saves money in the long run. And it looks amazing (I finally got to see some in person, it really is beautiful wood I instantly wanted to use it for my next project). I'd say if you plan on keeping your place indefinitely, then Ipe is the way to go. Otherwise just go cheap and use the treated lumber, it's good enough.

[Aegypticus]

Originally Posted by zamler

Another thing to consider is some cedar is not what it used to be, the maturity of the trees harvested means the wood is not as resistant as traditionally we are used to.

Does this apply to hardwood flooring too? I swear you could hit the hardwood floor at my parents' house with a hammer and not leave a mark, but the stuff at our place that's a year old has nothing hard about it.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by zamler

Cedar is amazing wood, but yes it is very soft. It depends largely on the usage it gets, if you have a high traffic area, then cedar IMO is a bad choice. Another thing to consider is some cedar is not what it used to be, the maturity of the trees harvested means the wood is not as resistant as traditionally we are used to. Keep that in mind (This actually applies to other types of wood as well in my experience).

Ipe is expensive, but it will last a lifetime with little to no maintenance, which saves money in the long run. And it looks amazing (I finally got to see some in person, it really is beautiful wood I instantly wanted to use it for my next project). I'd say if you plan on keeping your place indefinitely, then Ipe is the way to go. Otherwise just go cheap and use the treated lumber, it's good enough.

Part of it will be a walkway between my house and detached garage so pretty much as high usage as it gets. I also have to shovel that section in the winter which will potentially damage it even more. I think cedar will have to be out for me.

Ipe is sweet but with a 725sf deck and a cost of about $7/sf, I'm not sure I can justify spending a $4000 premium for that over PT. Plus installation will be more expensive/time-consuming. The difference could take the family to Disneyland for a holiday, which is probably a better use of the money, frankly. Plus I'm blowing my wad on $5000 worth of artificial grass in the backyard already. At some point I'm going to have to apply the brakes here and it might be the deck that suffers.

[CedarMeter]

http://www.timbertech.com/products/d...d/default.aspx

What do you think of Timber tech?..I can you sell you this stuff(timber tech relia board) for around 3.95 sq foot.Or is your heart set on wood..You said you not crazy about cedar but I could give you a wicked deal on it.. www.cedarshop.com

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Plus I'm blowing my wad on $5000 worth of artificial grass in the backyard already.

Artificial grass? Put that money into a nice deck and put in sod. Unless you have a very specific reason to go with an artificial surface like that, although I can't imagine what.

Originally Posted by Aegypticus

Does this apply to hardwood flooring too? I swear you could hit the hardwood floor at my parents' house with a hammer and not leave a mark, but the stuff at our place that's a year old has nothing hard about it.

Is it really solid wood? Or laminate?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by CedarMeter

http://www.timbertech.com/products/d...d/default.aspx

What do you think of Timber tech?..I can you sell you this stuff(timber tech relia board) for around 3.95 sq foot.Or is your heart set on wood..You said you not crazy about cedar but I could give you a wicked deal on it.. www.cedarshop.com

Wow thanks man! I'll research Timber Tech a bit tomorrow. Failing that, if you could swing me a good price maybe we will do cedar. I'll get back to you. That's great.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by zamler

Artificial grass? Put that money into a nice deck and put in sod. Unless you have a very specific reason to go with an artificial surface like that, although I can't imagine what.

Is it really solid wood? Or laminate?

I have giant pine trees in my backyard that I love. Because they block a lot of light and because of the acidic needles they drop, grass will not grow in my yard. My options are chop down the trees (which I'm not going to do), put rock beds or something under the trees (which would take up a huge chunk of my yard) or artificial grass.

The newer artificial grasses are very nice and don't look anything like astro-turf. It will give my kids a lot more room to play back there and they won't come in all dirty like they do now when they play in my yard where there are just wisps of grass in between patches of dirt.

I prefer real grass for sure and I even enjoy cutting grass, but trust me that it is not an option in my yard.

[zamler]

Interesting situation, I should have known it was something like that. Glad you're keeping the trees, I would do the same thing.

[simonsays]

Cedar is a fantastic vertical wood (fences, siding, etc) but I don't particularly like it on the horizontal. Mars too easily and doesn't have the legendary properties that it had 50+ years ago. For a deck floor I'd go pre-treated and use deck screws. It isn't as pretty but done properly is won't show wear like cedar will and it will have a longer life span.

You can always pretty things up via the railings.

[CedarMeter]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Wow thanks man! I'll research Timber Tech a bit tomorrow. Failing that, if you could swing me a good price maybe we will do cedar. I'll get back to you. That's great.

Alright. My number is on my website. My name Tyler. Maybe we can work something out.

[Aegypticus]

Originally Posted by zamler

Is it really solid wood? Or laminate?

Prefinished hardwood.

The laminate my parents have is also more durable than our hardwood.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Aegypticus

Prefinished hardwood.

The laminate my parents have is also more durable than our hardwood.

It depends if you're talking about the same species of wood. There's a huge range in wood hardness from Ipe and Jatoba all the way down to Fir and Pine. Regardless of age, harder woods are going to generally be harder than softer ones. If your parents had Oak floors and you had Cherry ones, your floors are likely going to dent more easily. Conversely, if they had old Pine floors and you had brand new Beech flooring, yours would likely stand up better to dents.

Age does play a bit of role because trees are harvested sooner and encouraged to grow faster these days. That means less of the strong heartwood and a wider gap between growth rings which weakens the wood. But brand new Ipe is going to be harder than 100 year old Douglas Fir no matter what just due to its inherent characteristics. When you're talking woods of similar density (or even the same kind of wood), then older wood would probably stand up better, all other things being equal.

[Aegypticus]

Their floor is oak, ours is maple. I'm unsure what type of maple.

Sorry for the thread derailing. It's just been frustrating to us how easily it can be damaged. I dropped the plastic vacuum cleaner extension tube thingy on it from a couple feet up and took a chunk out of the edge of a board.

[ken0042]

The one thing I would do differently is to use the "under deck screwing" thingmajig; assuming you have the clearance under the deck to pull that off. Mine is also the walkway to the garage; and every snowfall when I shovel I find screws that are not flush.

If you are going to screw from above- snap a chalk line. Yes, you can see the joist underneath- but having the screws perfectly lined up looks so much more professional.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by ken0042

The one thing I would do differently is to use the "under deck screwing" thingmajig; assuming you have the clearance under the deck to pull that off. Mine is also the walkway to the garage; and every snowfall when I shovel I find screws that are not flush.

If you are going to screw from above- snap a chalk line. Yes, you can see the joist underneath- but having the screws perfectly lined up looks so much more professional.

Shadoe-Track, it's what we are going to use on the deck we are doing in the next couple of weeks. Much nicer visually with no screws on top.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by ken0042

The one thing I would do differently is to use the "under deck screwing" thingmajig; assuming you have the clearance under the deck to pull that off. Mine is also the walkway to the garage; and every snowfall when I shovel I find screws that are not flush.

If you are going to screw from above- snap a chalk line. Yes, you can see the joist underneath- but having the screws perfectly lined up looks so much more professional.

That's a great tip on the chalk-line thing...thanks.

Unfortunately, this is pretty much a low-rider deck I'm putting on top of my existing (and old) concrete patio so there isn't any room at all to get underneath. It'll have to be screws on top, but I'll make sure I give the ones in the path of my shovel an extra turn or two to get them buried in the wood.

[Ducay]

Argh, I was planning on staining my deck this weekend and this morning the forecast for the weekend changed from 26 and sunny to raining all weekend.....fack

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Aegypticus

Their floor is oak, ours is maple. I'm unsure what type of maple.

Sorry for the thread derailing. It's just been frustrating to us how easily it can be damaged. I dropped the plastic vacuum cleaner extension tube thingy on it from a couple feet up and took a chunk out of the edge of a board.

Maple is supposed to be one of the hardest woods, bowling lanes are generally made from it. But as mentioned, I really think the age of the wood, location etc. has a large bearing on the quality and hardness. I've worked with oak stock that I purchased and it did not seem as dense as what I have in storage (which was handed down to me, 40+ years old). My flooring is oak (house is about 50 years old) and it stands up extremely well, you literally have to hit it with a hammer to make any significant mark. The sections are also longer, you pay a premium now to get the same look, if you can find it.

BTW, has anyone else had problems with using deck screws? I know of a deck that has the screws rusting after about 6-7 years. Not all of them, but some of them the heads are starting to stain the wood. Deck screws are just painted for protection AFAIK, doesn't seem like the best method. I looked at stainless screws one time when I was at Totem, but they are quite expensive.

[THE SCUD]

Zinc coated is what you should use, I think they are mostly a green-ish tinge these days. They shouldn't be rusting at 6-7 years, but after 10-20, I'd think it's possibility the zinc's come off, especially given how much snow sits on the decks for 6 months at a time here...

So really, if you don't buck up for stainless, you'll likely end up with some corroded zinc-coated screws. I've never seen ti staining the deck though, that's pretty serious corrosion.