Liberals now trying to buy Conservative MPs?

[MarchHare]

Seriously, is the only defense you Liberals have for Martin "well, at least he isnt Harper"?

It goes both ways though. I don't see the CPC (or their supporters) boasting about their own policies and how they'd be better for Canada. All I see are "The Liberals are corrupt criminals, vote for us!" and "Sponsorship Scandal!"

Not that I blame the CPC for doing that, mind you, as it really is their best campaign strategy. Like it or not, the Liberals have done a very good job of tailoring their policies to the moderate, middle-of-the-road voter, and they cream the other parties if the debate is over the issues. The only hope the opposition parties have is to try to paint the Liberals as nothing but a filthy pack of criminals and hope Canadians don't vote based on policy.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by MarchHare@May 5 2005, 03:47 PM

It goes both ways though. I don't see the CPC (or their supporters) boasting about their own policies and how they'd be better for Canada. All I see are "The Liberals are corrupt criminals, vote for us!" and "Sponsorship Scandal!"

Not that I blame the CPC for doing that, mind you, as it really is their best campaign strategy. Like it or not, the Liberals have done a very good job of tailoring their policies to the moderate, middle-of-the-road voter, and they cream the other parties if the debate is over the issues. The only hope the opposition parties have is to try to paint the Liberals as nothing but a filthy pack of criminals and hope Canadians don't vote based on policy.

I really don't see it that way, in the last election, Harper was pretty clear about the Conservative policies, and the Liberal's were very effective with spins and distortions.

The whole thing about the conservatives wanting to build aircraft carriers, and kill public healthcare completely was quite hilarious. The Liberal ad with a gun pointed at our face was disgusting.

I have nothing against people with Liberal views, I think its important that a country has as many different viewpoints as possible.

I have a lot against the Liberal Party, and I don't see where they offer any more substance then the conservatives as far as policy goes. But they're so good at lying and slander that its easy for people to believe them.

I was disgusted with the KKK statement made by the Liberals the other day, the continued attack on health care policies where they mix half truths and no truth is truly something to see.

The Liberal's are a political machine who will sell thier souls to stay by the piggy banks.

[MarchHare]

I was disgusted with the KKK statement made by the Liberals the other day,

And what are your opinions towards the CPC poster that depicted the Liberals as The Sopranos?

Both were in equally poor taste, in my opinion.

And if you don't see the Conservatives attacking the Liberals on virtually a daily basis, you're just not paying attention.

[RedHot25]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch@May 5 2005, 04:04 PM

I really don't see it that way, in the last election, Harper was pretty clear about the Conservative policies, and the Liberal's were very effective with spins and distortions.

I think that you have hit the nail on the head here. However, I don't just think that it was "Liberal spin tactics" completely that did things. In my view - and it may be the view of a lot of Canadians in general - the Conservative platform, was well, what was it again? I don't know, I found it hard to understand what they actually stood for to be honest with you.

Soooo then you have the "private health care" speel, as an example. Whether you think fair or not, but the perception is that the Conservatives did not effectively counter that, to be honest with you. All they did was say (admittingly that this is quite simplistic) "no we won't do anything to health care!".

But what would they actually do? Don't attack the Liberals and tell me that they are bad. What would the Conservatives actually do?

Whether you think this is true or not, your decision. The perception, though, from people I talked to was "what the hell do the Conservatives officially stand for??" and couple that in with "Liberal spin tactics", and....


And pls, this is a naive comment, so please respond nicely -- but didn't the Conservatives have a policy convention after the election - to establish more of their policy/platform? I think that added more to the perception of "Ohhh, now look, they are setting their rules after the election...why didn't they do that before? Maybe the Liberals were right; they had this hidden agenda of stuff that they would do and were not telling us before".


I am not saying right or wrong, truthful or not. But perception is often the biggest key in things.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by MarchHare@May 5 2005, 04:14 PM

And what are your opinions towards the CPC poster that depicted the Liberals as The Sopranos?

Both were in equally poor taste, in my opinion.

And if you don't see the Conservatives attacking the Liberals on virtually a daily basis, you're just not paying attention.

To me personally, there's a huge different between portraying a group as a criminal gang from a T.V. show considering whats come out from Gomery, and portraying a political party as charter members of a historical hate group that targeted and murdered minorities while fighting against race equality.

And the fact that its not the first time that the Liberal's have painted the conservatives with the racist brush.

It was repugnant, and far beyond the Soprano's poster.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by RedHot25+May 5 2005, 04:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RedHot25 @ May 5 2005, 04:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-CaptainCrunch@May 5 2005, 04:04 PM

I really don't see it that way, in the last election, Harper was pretty clear about the Conservative policies, and the Liberal's were very effective with spins and distortions.

I think that you have hit the nail on the head here. However, I don't just think that it was "Liberal spin tactics" completely that did things. In my view - and it may be the view of a lot of Canadians in general - the Conservative platform, was well, what was it again? I don't know, I found it hard to understand what they actually stood for to be honest with you.

Soooo then you have the "private health care" speel, as an example. Whether you think fair or not, but the perception is that the Conservatives did not effectively counter that, to be honest with you. All they did was say (admittingly that this is quite simplistic) "no we won't do anything to health care!".

But what would they actually do? Don't attack the Liberals and tell me that they are bad. What would the Conservatives actually do?

Whether you think this is true or not, your decision. The perception, though, from people I talked to was "what the hell do the Conservatives officially stand for??" and couple that in with "Liberal spin tactics", and....


And pls, this is a naive comment, so please respond nicely -- but didn't the Conservatives have a policy convention after the election - to establish more of their policy/platform? I think that added more to the perception of "Ohhh, now look, they are setting their rules after the election...why didn't they do that before? Maybe the Liberals were right; they had this hidden agenda of stuff that they would do and were not telling us before".


I am not saying right or wrong, truthful or not. But perception is often the biggest key in things. [/b][/quote]
Your right, the one thing about Harper is that he's very naive when he's under attack. He tries to counter with re-explanation, what he should do is adopt the Liberal philosophy of spin and mis-direction when he comes under attack. Instead of battling on health care, all he needs to say, is we're all for public health care, but how can you believe anything that the lying liberal's have to say, they have no credibility.

And your right about the policy convention, but you have to remember that it was scheduled a long time ago, before the gomery explosion happened, and its next to impossible to change the scheduling for this.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch+May 5 2005, 10:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CaptainCrunch @ May 5 2005, 10:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-MarchHare@May 5 2005, 04:14 PM

And what are your opinions towards the CPC poster that depicted the Liberals as The Sopranos?

Both were in equally poor taste, in my opinion.

And if you don't see the Conservatives attacking the Liberals on virtually a daily basis, you're just not paying attention.

To me personally, there's a huge different between portraying a group as a criminal gang from a T.V. show considering whats come out from Gomery, and portraying a political party as charter members of a historical hate group that targeted and murdered minorities while fighting against race equality.

And the fact that its not the first time that the Liberal's have painted the conservatives with the racist brush.

It was repugnant, and far beyond the Soprano's poster. [/b][/quote]
That whole Sopranos/Klan thing was pretty funny on both sides I thought.

I think it was a completely non-ethnic joke but the Liberals, as they are wont to do, spin it around and get an Italian MP to say it was a racist attack and brings up the Klan so the CPCs spin that and get the nonnest-whitest MP to stand up and shout about the insult towards African Americans.

The whole thing was a crock. I love watching those guys try to act all indignant and offended though.

[Flame On]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch+May 5 2005, 09:04 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CaptainCrunch @ May 5 2005, 09:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-MarchHare@May 5 2005, 03:47 PM

It goes both ways though. I don't see the CPC (or their supporters) boasting about their own policies and how they'd be better for Canada. All I see are "The Liberals are corrupt criminals, vote for us!" and "Sponsorship Scandal!"

Not that I blame the CPC for doing that, mind you, as it really is their best campaign strategy. Like it or not, the Liberals have done a very good job of tailoring their policies to the moderate, middle-of-the-road voter, and they cream the other parties if the debate is over the issues. The only hope the opposition parties have is to try to paint the Liberals as nothing but a filthy pack of criminals and hope Canadians don't vote based on policy.

I really don't see it that way, in the last election, Harper was pretty clear about the Conservative policies, and the Liberal's were very effective with spins and distortions.

The whole thing about the conservatives wanting to build aircraft carriers, and kill public healthcare completely was quite hilarious. The Liberal ad with a gun pointed at our face was disgusting.

I have nothing against people with Liberal views, I think its important that a country has as many different viewpoints as possible.

I have a lot against the Liberal Party, and I don't see where they offer any more substance then the conservatives as far as policy goes. But they're so good at lying and slander that its easy for people to believe them.

I was disgusted with the KKK statement made by the Liberals the other day, the continued attack on health care policies where they mix half truths and no truth is truly something to see.

The Liberal's are a political machine who will sell thier souls to stay by the piggy banks. [/b][/quote]
Still, not as bad as racial predjudism and stereotyping all criminal behavior as being inherently Italian or something eh?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by Flame On+May 5 2005, 05:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flame On @ May 5 2005, 05:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

I really don't see it that way, in the last election, Harper was pretty clear about the Conservative policies, and the Liberal's were very effective with spins and distortions.

The whole thing about the conservatives wanting to build aircraft carriers, and kill public healthcare completely was quite hilarious. The Liberal ad with a gun pointed at our face was disgusting.

I have nothing against people with Liberal views, I think its important that a country has as many different viewpoints as possible.

I have a lot against the Liberal Party, and I don't see where they offer any more substance then the conservatives as far as policy goes. But they're so good at lying and slander that its easy for people to believe them.

I was disgusted with the KKK statement made by the Liberals the other day, the continued attack on health care policies where they mix half truths and no truth is truly something to see.

The Liberal's are a political machine who will sell thier souls to stay by the piggy banks.

Still, not as bad as racial predjudism and stereotyping all criminal behavior as being inherently Italian or something eh? [/b][/quote]
I didn't read that whole intent at all with that poster. Tying the Liberals too a ficticious and exaggerated crime family from a highly rated T.V. show pales in comparison to calling a conservative party Klansmen, but I shouldn't expect more from the Liberals as they make it a habit to paint anyone thats not in thier special interest groups as racist and undesirable.

If the MP has problems with the Soprano's painting Italians in a bad way maybe he should make a statement comparing the writers of that show to the Klan since he's so willing to bellow racism from the ivory tower that he lives on.

Hey maybe he and Hiedi Fry (sp?) can form a website called peabrained.com

[Flame On]

I didn't read that whole intent at all with that poster. Tying the Liberals too a ficticious and exaggerated crime family from a highly rated T.V. show pales in comparison to calling a conservative party Klansmen, but I shouldn't expect more from the Liberals as they make it a habit to paint anyone thats not in thier special interest groups as racist and undesirable.

If the MP has problems with the Soprano's painting Italians in a bad way maybe he should make a statement comparing the writers of that show to the Klan since he's so willing to bellow racism from the ivory tower that he lives on.

Hey maybe he and Hiedi Fry (sp?) can form a website called peabrained.com

I think portraying that stereo type show's wanton ill thinking by the PC. That show did indeed have many Italian Americans up in arms about racial stereotyping. So I disagree 100 percent, that it pales in comparison. If I'm black and you make an inappropriate racist comment I might well turn around and say you're a clansman. That reciprocated remark is not worse than the racist one in the first place.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by Flame On@May 5 2005, 06:07 PM

I think portraying that stereo type show's wanton ill thinking by the PC. That show did indeed have many Italian Americans up in arms about racial stereotyping. So I disagree 100 percent, that it pales in comparison. If I'm black and you make an inappropriate racist comment I might well turn around and say you're a clansman. That reciprocated remark is not worse than the racist one in the first place.

Apologies, but I'm not buying it, if the poster had Paul Martin as John Gotti, and Jean Chretian as Al Capone I could see it, but moving from a T.V. show cultural icon event to racism against the mob to me is a stretch, where as dunderhead directly went to comparing the conservatives to the Clan.

I'm just not seeing your comparison.

Sorry

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch+May 5 2005, 09:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CaptainCrunch @ May 5 2005, 09:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-MarchHare@May 5 2005, 04:14 PM

And what are your opinions towards the CPC poster that depicted the Liberals as The Sopranos?

Both were in equally poor taste, in my opinion.

And if you don't see the Conservatives attacking the Liberals on virtually a daily basis, you're just not paying attention.

To me personally, there's a huge different between portraying a group as a criminal gang from a T.V. show considering whats come out from Gomery, and portraying a political party as charter members of a historical hate group that targeted and murdered minorities while fighting against race equality.

And the fact that its not the first time that the Liberal's have painted the conservatives with the racist brush.

It was repugnant, and far beyond the Soprano's poster. [/b][/quote]
how about the conservative member who called Martin "Osama Bin Martin"
Does portraying someone as a terrorist and the FBIs most wanted man compare?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by Winsor_Pilates+May 5 2005, 06:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Winsor_Pilates @ May 5 2005, 06:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

To me personally, there's a huge different between portraying a group as a criminal gang from a T.V. show considering whats come out from Gomery, and portraying a political party as charter members of a historical hate group that targeted and murdered minorities while fighting against race equality.

And the fact that its not the first time that the Liberal's have painted the conservatives with the racist brush.

It was repugnant, and far beyond the Soprano's poster.

how about the conservative member who called Martin "Osama Bin Martin"
Does portraying someone as a terrorist and the FBIs most wanted man compare? [/b][/quote]
Musta missed that one, when did it happen?

[Flame On]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch+May 5 2005, 11:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CaptainCrunch @ May 5 2005, 11:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Flame On@May 5 2005, 06:07 PM

I think portraying that stereo type show's wanton ill thinking by the PC. That show did indeed have many Italian Americans up in arms about racial stereotyping. So I disagree 100 percent, that it pales in comparison. If I'm black and you make an inappropriate racist comment I might well turn around and say you're a clansman. That reciprocated remark is not worse than the racist one in the first place.

Apologies, but I'm not buying it, if the poster had Paul Martin as John Gotti, and Jean Chretian as Al Capone I could see it, but moving from a T.V. show cultural icon event to racism against the mob to me is a stretch, where as dunderhead directly went to comparing the conservatives to the Clan.

I'm just not seeing your comparison.

Sorry [/b][/quote]
Don't over simplify it for convenience, it's not racism against the mob it's against italians.
I'm sorry too, i just don't see what the cons promlem is with it. They opened the door and were frikin foolish too knowing how the liberals like to spin, why even go close to a subject like that? Racism by the way doesn't not exist because you can't see it. By the way also, I'm not saying they're racist, there's a difference between that and prejudiced or having stereotypes.

[CaptainCrunch]

Geoff Norquay comments were repulsive as well, and there was severe outcry from the Liberals and he was forced to apologize, which he did.

Yes and calling anyone Osama Bin Martin is repugnent as well. However again Norquay pretty much instantly apologized. We've yet to see that from Fry or any other Liberal.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by Flame On+May 5 2005, 06:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flame On @ May 5 2005, 06:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Apologies, but I'm not buying it, if the poster had Paul Martin as John Gotti, and Jean Chretian as Al Capone I could see it, but moving from a T.V. show cultural icon event to racism against the mob to me is a stretch, where as dunderhead directly went to comparing the conservatives to the Clan.

I'm just not seeing your comparison.

Sorry

Don't over simplify it for convenience, it's not racism against the mob it's against italians.
I'm sorry too, i just don't see what the cons promlem is with it. They opened the door and were frikin foolish too knowing how the liberals like to spin, why even go close to a subject like that? Racism by the way doesn't not exist because you can't see it. By the way also, I'm not saying they're racist, there's a difference between that and prejudiced or having stereotypes. [/b][/quote]
So I made a typo and put mob instead of Italian, and if the Liberal's had a problem with the stereotypes on the show, then maybe they should have the Sorpranos not airable in Canada.

I'm not simplifying things, in my mind there's no comparison between putting Martin and Chretien's heads on a poster for a Television show about criminals and comparing the Conservatives to a white supremist group.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, but I just don't see what your trying to lay out.

[Shawnski]

These political threads get SOOO serious sometimes....

On that note!

__________________

I had a bunch of Canadian dollars I needed to exchange so I went to the currency exchange window at the local bank.

Short line... just one guy in front of me... The guy in front of me was an Asian guy who was trying to exchange yen for dollars and he was a little agitated...

He asked the teller, "why it change? yestoday I get two hunat dolla fo yen - today I get hunat eighty? Why it change?"

The teller says, "fluctuations"

The Asian guy says, "fluc you white guys too!"
__________________

:P

[Winsor_Pilates]

My favorite childish political moment of recent history, was about a month ago when the Conservatives started singing
NA NA NA NA, NA NA NA NA, Hey Hey, Goodbye
in the house of commons
That was hilarious, but very immature.

I'm amazed that the house excepts such behaviors in it (from all sides).
This place is home to some of the most important jobs in our country and the politicians act like fans at a sports game. There's more booing, cheering and singing in the house than at a flames game.
Can you imagine if people started doing these things in their boardroom meetings. They would be looked at like morons and fired. The house should hold up to the same sort of standards.

Sorry for getting a bit off topic, just had to get in my little rant. B-)

[dustygoon]

Originally posted by Bingo+May 4 2005, 02:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Bingo @ May 4 2005, 02:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Flames89@May 4 2005, 07:26 AM
If the Conservatives had a leader with half the charisma and who was half as in touch with the people as Jack Layton they would win by a landslide.

Charisma is nice, but give me substance any day. I think the bigger picture for Harper is to lose the "scary" label. Just or not it's hard to win if people "fear" you.

Exacty what people is Layton in touch with? [/b][/quote]
Problem is that you are not one of the easily swayed voters. Too many people vote based on charisma. It is a human trait. Do the conservatives have a PR ringer to spruce up image and dumb down the message for the masses?

[browna]

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/20...7/mcguinty.html

Martin gives almost 6B$ to Ontario for various administrative sundry items that they've been arguing over for years.

CBC cuts to the meat of this here: Martin was also anxious to end the fighting with Ontario, whose 106 seats are crucial to his minority government, both in upcoming votes in the House of Commons and in the inevitable next election.

Jack Layton has charisma? I guess you've been sold that extra 10 year warranty on your kitchen table at the Brick too from that salesman that "had charisma"

Charisma's important and can get you far in policitics, but this guy is dumb as bricks.

The smug smile, the lame jokes, and the broad cliched statements may work for someone down in the 3rd party looking up and taking shots at the 2 other parties (or selling furniture), but not a trait of any sort of leader that people would look up to as getting something done with any sort of commitement or intensity.

Give Martin another 3 months, and he'll have rolled over the backbone challeneged Layton too, and implemented the majority of his policys, and left the NDP scratching thier heads wondering how it seemed that they had all the power, to once again having none.