Great Read

[Looger]

Originally posted by KevanGuy+May 3 2005, 05:53 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (KevanGuy @ May 3 2005, 05:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-CaptainCrunch@May 2 2005, 11:46 PM
Its funny how German society really glamourized thier officer corp, and the Soviet Union really didn't but attributed all of thier victories to comrade Stalin.

I don't mean to be an ass CC but do have links to that? Or some books perhaps? I'd personally like to learn more about the German psyche about such things. [/b][/quote]
not to barge in but there's a book called 'panzer commander' by hans von luck that deals mostly with what a company commander / battalion commander sees in the field.

i picked it up thinking it'd be more insight into strategy and tactics, and was plaeasntly surprised at its insight into what one german saw and interpreted across the major fronts of the war.

[Looger]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch+May 3 2005, 02:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CaptainCrunch @ May 3 2005, 02:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

I don't mean to be an ass CC but do have links to that? Or some books perhaps? I'd personally like to learn more about the German psyche about such things.

I'll give you a list tonight when I get home, but be warned, its going to be a long list. [/b][/quote]
could you hit me with said list as well?

[CaptainCrunch]

Here goes, these are all books that I've read at some point or another.

Court of the red tsar - Simon Sebag Montefiore

Mein Kempf - Adolf Hitler

Dictators - Hitlers Germany Stalin's Russia

Stalin's folly, the first 10 days of WWII on the Easter front - Konstantin Plesakov

Wilson's war - Jim Powell

Unquiet ghost - Adam Hochschild (great book)

Stalin breaker of nations - Robert Conquest

Stalin's last crime - the plot against jewish doctors - Johnathon Brent

Stalin as a revolutionary - Robert Tucker

Grand Delusion the german invasion of Russia - Gabriel Gorodetsky

Russian Tanks of WWII - Donald Reyfield

Hitler and Stalin, Paralell lives - Alan Bolluck

The Cold War and Soviet insecurity - Vojtech Mastny

Stalin and the bomb - David Holloway

European Dictatorships - Todd Allen

Stalin's Peasants - Sheila Fitzpatrick

And just when you think I'm done

Fron Darwin to Hitler Evolutionary ethics - Richard Weikart

Inside Hitler's Bunker - Joachim Fest

Hitler's Pope - John Cornwell

Hitler 1936-45 Nemesis - Ian Kershaw

Hitler a study in tyranny - Alan Bullock

Hitler's World View - Eberhard Jackal

Hitler's Spies - David Kahn

Hitler's General's - Correlli Barnett

Corp Hitler's Regiment Hitler 1914-1918 - Jack Williams

Hitler's Commanders, bravery in the field - James Lucas

Devil's Diciples - Anthony Read

Hope that helps

[kermitology]

Yo CaptianCrunch.. The Red Army General you thought was Zubov.. Zhukov most likely. He was a celebrated hero of the people but was simply isolated in the middle of nowhere until his death.

I'd argue that Stalin was worse, I got about 3/4 of the way through a book called Gulag, I had to stop because it was a bit to depressing during exams, and the organization of that thing during the 1930's ("The Great Terror") just shows how amazingly paranoid Stalin was. The Gulag was responsible for more death and punishment than the Holocaust, if only for the duration of things. Also remember that Stalin was a might strong anti-semite as well. A Jew could be liberated from a German concentration camp and sent to the Gulag. "You're a fascist!" "I'm a Jew, Hitler hates Jews, how can I be aligned with him?" "You're only pretending to be a Jew to subvert the motherland!"

The scariest thing is that there are probably more people than accounted for spending time in the Gulag. It just makes you sick to your stomach.

And if you want to learn something about the Wehrmarcht and the Red Army, I highly recommend Antony Beevors books "The Fall Of Berlin 1945" and "Stalingrad"

1945 is amazing, one of the best books I've ever read, it looks at the Red Army advancement into Nazi controlled territory from January 1, 1945 to VE-Day. The focus is mostly on the Red Army generals Zhukov and Koniev, but the author has amazing detail from both sides, usually from diaries of aides. He doesn't take sides, presents estimations from both sides of battles and then chides in with his own estimations.

I remember watching parts of the movie "Enemy At The Gates" and it's about the most famous Soviet sniper during the Second World War, mentioned near the end of Stalingrad.

Also of note.. Guderian and Rommel could probably have won the war for Germany, or at least had more success. Guderian in particular was brilliant, and even when he contradicted Hitler, he still stayed alive. 1945 talks in great detail about him and his battles with Hitler.

I love Russian history..

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by kermitology@May 4 2005, 05:52 PM
Yo CaptianCrunch.. The Red Army General you thought was Zubov.. Zhukov most likely. He was a celebrated hero of the people but was simply isolated in the middle of nowhere until his death.

I'd argue that Stalin was worse, I got about 3/4 of the way through a book called Gulag, I had to stop because it was a bit to depressing during exams, and the organization of that thing during the 1930's ("The Great Terror") just shows how amazingly paranoid Stalin was. The Gulag was responsible for more death and punishment than the Holocaust, if only for the duration of things. Also remember that Stalin was a might strong anti-semite as well. A Jew could be liberated from a German concentration camp and sent to the Gulag. "You're a fascist!" "I'm a Jew, Hitler hates Jews, how can I be aligned with him?" "You're only pretending to be a Jew to subvert the motherland!"

The scariest thing is that there are probably more people than accounted for spending time in the Gulag. It just makes you sick to your stomach.

And if you want to learn something about the Wehrmarcht and the Red Army, I highly recommend Antony Beevors books "The Fall Of Berlin 1945" and "Stalingrad"

1945 is amazing, one of the best books I've ever read, it looks at the Red Army advancement into Nazi controlled territory from January 1, 1945 to VE-Day. The focus is mostly on the Red Army generals Zhukov and Koniev, but the author has amazing detail from both sides, usually from diaries of aides. He doesn't take sides, presents estimations from both sides of battles and then chides in with his own estimations.

I remember watching parts of the movie "Enemy At The Gates" and it's about the most famous Soviet sniper during the Second World War, mentioned near the end of Stalingrad.

Also of note.. Guderian and Rommel could probably have won the war for Germany, or at least had more success. Guderian in particular was brilliant, and even when he contradicted Hitler, he still stayed alive. 1945 talks in great detail about him and his battles with Hitler.

I love Russian history..

Your right it was Zhukov, I must have been watching NHL classics and Zubovs name grabbed my mind

[Delthefunky]

I just watched this documentary based on the Donovan Webster book of the same name.

http://www.moviesfoundonline.com/aft...nts_of_war.php

Really eye opening for me. I was pretty ignorant to the lasting effects of agent orange in Vietnam. The Soviet bone fields are unbelievable, I heard about them through Dan Carlin`s HH episode, Ghosts of the Ostfront.