Copa Oro 2011

[cSpooge]

Originally Posted by troutman

If they tie in regulation, do they play O/T then a shoot-out?

nope not in the group stages. The tie breakers are head-to-head then GD.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by troutman

If they tie in regulation, do they play O/T then a shoot-out?

Nope not until the knockout round. If they tie, the game ends and they are knocked out with no coin flip or anything this time - lose the tiebreak on goal differential with Panama and also lose the tie breaker between the best 3rd place teams on GD. Scoring an extra goal or two against Guadeloupe would have been pretty clutch. If they don't win I figure they get what they deserve though - lucky 1-0 win over an area with the same number of people as the Okanagan Valley was pretty bad.

Rest assured though - I am going to sacrifice an effigy of Rod Carew in the hope that it satisfies some sort of higher power and brings Canada to victory over the evil Panamanians.

[cheevers]

On the plus side if Canada loses tonight hopefully it brings an end to the awful Stephen Hart era of Canadian soccer before the World Cup qualifiers. The man is atrocious and should be coaching a div 6 cusa team.

[browna]

Originally Posted by cheevers

On the plus side if Canada loses tonight hopefully it brings an end to the awful Stephen Hart era of Canadian soccer before the World Cup qualifiers. The man is atrocious and should be coaching a div 6 cusa team.

Maybe, but at least Hart had the players support, unlike Yallop. The CSA will just replace him with some schlub, or go the foreign route again. Most if not all top end foriegn coaches want no part of such an infighting and unstable Association first and foremost, and, a team that as a direct result of the association, is still in shambles, eve though there is pretty good talent overall, and will take a couple years at least to get rolling again.

Plain and simple, until Canada gets an unselfish, unpolitical and progressive thinking governing body, the program will continue to tread water at best. THe CSA and their entitlement have long since ripped apart the already fragile balance of the national team in Canada, nevermind ignoring development of top players in Canada rising up the youth ranks.

The Gold Cup win in 2001 thanks to a coin flip, a couple fortunate wins after that, probably set the program back more then putting it ahead. The extra money they got for the Confed Cup apperance and other events from that was pissed away, and the people at the CSA thought that all their misguided antics and ridiculous policies and procedures had paid off and were justified with that result, and were probably already thinking of how to spend the 2006 WC money they'd get for qualifying.

Until the CSA can get their act together, kick out the ones who are there for their own ego and self preservation, and be able present a strong business case to sponsors in Canada, and have patience to see a National team and feeder system plan through a few lean years in the name of down the road success, only then can they start to emerge and start seeing some results. Getting sponsors onboard and the public caring about them even a little bit is key, and that begins, and ends, with a legitimate run through WC qualifiers and has to include getting to the WC, or very close to it.

The "own the podium" program that the Canadian Olympic Association instituted after the 2004 and 2006 games is a pretty good game plan for success and 2010 showcased incredibly. A similar blueprint to that is needed for Canadian Soccer. The talent is there, it needs to be properly supported, funded, and supplimented in any way possible to turn that talent into a team that can be one of the top 3 or 4 countries in the region.

[Resolute 14]

Well, Canada just turned a win into a draw with some brutally incompetent defence on a corner kick in extra time.

[Mango]

Brutal. What was Borjan doing there? Talk about scrambling. While I don't mind Canada's midfield, there's no finish on the team. That might be why the team has only scored on penalty kicks.

[GirlySports]

Canadian futbol has regressed. They cannot play this walking and passing style. The ball needs to go forward. Defending was a mess at the end but they have to score more than 1 goal on a PK.

Hart needs to go.. the players that we see on tv, Forrest, DeVos, etc.. need to take control of the CSA.

ooor can Klinsman coach? He's in Toronto already

[Resolute 14]

Borjan wasn't great on that play, but he was also the only Canadian actually moving. All of his teammates were doing really effective pylon impressions.

Canada's going to be a joke internationally for another generation. Not until the new generation, inspired by the MLS teams in Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver start coming up the pipes.

[troutman]

Gross Negligence by Borjan.

[Matty81]

Bit unlucky not to go through with 4 points but not a good enough team to make any noise regardless without Hutchinson - he's the only guy in their 11 who would contend for a tournament all-star position on current form and was a huge loss.

Vancouver's academy has been running for a few years and is already seeing the benefits of the amazing structure they have set up there with good players like Russell Teibert and Ethan Gage already graduating.

I think the next quali cycle will be a bit of a gong show unless they can recruit a gamebreaker like Hoilett or somebody really emerges which is unlikely but I think by the following cycle the De Rosario Klukowski McKenna Hirshfeld generation will be gone and there will be new blood and alot more depth.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Matty81

Bit unlucky not to go through with 4 points but not a good enough team to make any noise regardless without Hutchinson - he's the only guy in their 11 who would contend for a tournament all-star position on current form and was a huge loss.

Vancouver's academy has been running for a few years and is already seeing the benefits of the amazing structure they have set up there with good players like Russell Teibert and Ethan Gage already graduating.

I think the next quali cycle will be a bit of a gong show unless they can recruit a gamebreaker like Hoilett or somebody really emerges which is unlikely but I think by the following cycle the De Rosario Klukowski McKenna Hirshfeld generation will be gone and there will be new blood and alot more depth.

Hope so but we really need a better CSA structure to turn that talent into anything. I still think we need a foreign coach with some fresh ideas. Doesn't have to be a big name but should be from an established country. Back in 2000, Holger Osieck wasn't a big name.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by browna

The "own the podium" program that the Canadian Olympic Association instituted after the 2004 and 2006 games is a pretty good game plan for success and 2010 showcased incredibly. A similar blueprint to that is needed for Canadian Soccer.

Personally, I'm a fan of the Skill Development programme that Hockey Canada implemented a few years ago but the Own The Podium program might be just as good if not better because it dealt with the financial aspect as well. Another model I'd look to is England's National Football Centre. It's role as a centre of learning and development for coaches and trainers is going to go a long way and it will be an excellent supplement to the academy system. Not surprisingly, it too is relying on sponsorship; the Umbro-sponsored St George’s Park.

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Hart needs to go.. the players that we see on tv, Forrest, DeVos, etc.. need to take control of the CSA.

I'd like to see the supporters step up as well, a real revolution.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Hope so but we really need a better CSA structure to turn that talent into anything. I still think we need a foreign coach with some fresh ideas. Doesn't have to be a big name but should be from an established country. Back in 2000, Holger Osieck wasn't a big name.

One year from now half the board of the CSA goes professional so the leadership will have at least some semblance of an arms length relationship from the provincial soccer good ole boys who have been squabbling amongst each other and spending half our budget on World Cup/Major Championship tickets flights and accommodations for themselves every year. It's a step in the right direction - finally.

As for the manager of the nats - IMO unfortunately no matter who does the job they just don't have the horses right now - since the last cycle the two best players then (de guz and de rosario) have both lost a step or three with no significant influx of new talent. I wouldn't be opposed to a change but I'm not optimistic about this World Cup cycle regardless. Best case scenario is Simeon Jackson playing EPL and improving, landing Hoillet and Borjan playing lots with his Turkish League team. If one of the young keepers with big clubs like Stillo with Genoa or Santiago with Cardiff broke into their first teams it would be huge but unlikely in the short term.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Matty81

One year from now half the board of the CSA goes professional so the leadership will have at least some semblance of an arms length relationship from the provincial soccer good ole boys who have been squabbling amongst each other and spending half our budget on World Cup/Major Championship tickets flights and accommodations for themselves every year. It's a step in the right direction - finally.

As for the manager of the nats - IMO unfortunately no matter who does the job they just don't have the horses right now - since the last cycle the two best players then (de guz and de rosario) have both lost a step or three with no significant influx of new talent. I wouldn't be opposed to a change but I'm not optimistic about this World Cup cycle regardless. Best case scenario is Simeon Jackson playing EPL and improving, landing Hoillet and Borjan playing lots with his Turkish League team. If one of the young keepers with big clubs like Stillo with Genoa or Santiago with Cardiff broke into their first teams it would be huge but unlikely in the short term.

Perhaps not this cycle but hire a good coach until 2018 and build on it. This is a pretty easy region, it doesn't take much to beat Costa Rica or Honduras et al. We've been saying that Canada doesn't have the horses since 1998 and it never seems to improve. Hope you are right and the CSA has some accountability.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Perhaps not this cycle but hire a good coach until 2018 and build on it. This is a pretty easy region, it doesn't take much to beat Costa Rica or Honduras et al. We've been saying that Canada doesn't have the horses since 1998 and it never seems to improve. Hope you are right and the CSA has some accountability.

I agree about the 2018 cycle. For me - a high priced foreign manager for the nats should have similar timing to the closer for the Jays - you put that piece in place after you've invested in development and are ready to contend. Before then, tactical brilliance is a bit wasted relative to the price you pay. Heavy investment in our u-20 and younger programs is the way to spend the money now IMO with the 3 mls academies in place.

As for our region - it's not easy anymore at all. Honduras, the Ticos and those guys all have solid domestic leagues and more players playing at the top levels in Europe these days than us - then you've got to go into some of the most hostile conditions in world soccer in central america and get away wins to progress. ####ty food, bad hotels, your hotel getting foghorned all night and then getting plastic baggies of piss and and all manner of stuff thrown at you in +35 heat in the stadium. There are way better teams than us in Europe who wouldn't make it through our zone despite the euro snobbery about CONCACAF you hear. I also think it's why (before this one our team always does better at the Gold Cup.

We are just coming through the "dark ages" for Canadian soccer - the post CSL era before the MLS moved in - there was no domestic fully pro soccer. Respect for A-League but you weren't making the world cup with players from it. It'll take another half a decade before the program has depth again unfortunately, but the long wait will make celebrating our next World Cup even sweeter.

[GirlySports]

Can we play in Whitehorse? Can we play in St. John's again?

The Central American tactics have been beaten to death. But Canada was able to get past that before. The 1986 and 1994 campaigns, Canada went down there and beat everyone not named Mexico.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Can we play in Whitehorse? Can we play in St. John's again?

The Central American tactics have been beaten to death. But Canada was able to get past that before. The 1986 and 1994 campaigns, Canada went down there and beat everyone not named Mexico.

haha Whitehorse or yellowknife would be pretty hilarious. I think if there was a good facility in the maritimes they would get games too and the partisan atmosphere would be great.

If they started playing home games at places like King George Field in St. John's getting dressed in portables I don't think many of the pros from Europe would be willing to answer the program's call these days though. They have a tough enough time as it is - there are a lot of primadonnas on the Canadian soccer scene, most of whom come from the Ontario area.

As for our zone, the central americans have way way more depth and often technically stronger teams than us now which is the kicker. Back in the CSL days they could choose from 10 strikers every year and go with the guys scoring goals and playing lots. Now it's Friend, Gerba and co every time regardless of if they falter at club level and end up on the bench in the Bundesliga 8.

The stronger central american teams will have 2 or 3 guys in europe and then every striker in their 10-12 team domestic league to pick between.

Not to say Canada isn't competitive with them but when you're already walking a tightrope - throw in those conditions and have Onstad drop a ball into your own net at one of your home games and it's over. We have a way bigger population pool to draw on so with the right development tools we'll beat them again but the last 10 years they developed more and often better players.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Matty81

If they started playing home games at places like King George Field in St. John's getting dressed in portables I don't think many of the pros from Europe would be willing to answer the program's call these days though. They have a tough enough time as it is - there are a lot of primadonnas on the Canadian soccer scene, most of whom come from the Ontario area.

This is where the CSA needs to get their act together. Send a proposal to the local and Provincial government stating that you'll play all of your home qualifiers in their park so long as they fund the bill for certain upgrades (i.e. nice changing rooms for the home team, portables for our friends from the south).

[GirlySports]

Canada has to play in a preliminary round for the 2014 World Cup qualifying to get into the semifinal round of 12. It's tricky because it's 6 groups of 4 and only the first place team in group advances.

I think this is a win-win for Canada. Good because they get 6 matches to beat up on some Carribean teams and get some structure and confidence into the system. And also good because if they don't qualify from this preliminary round, might as well blow it all up and start all over again.

[Resolute 14]

This Honduras-Costa Rica game is just embarrassing. Some of the worst acting and diving I've ever seen, including a Costa Rican who was slapped in the hand, only to grab his face and fall down as if he got punched in the nose.