CBE to trim 200-250 jobs

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Crazy Bacon Legs

Wait, they are firing 200-250 teachers?

I was going to ask the same question; as nothing I have heard talks about firing any teachers; never mind that many.

With two trustees abstaining because a Calgary Board of Education lawyer had advised them they were in a conflict of interest, the board voted unanimously in favour of a new administration plan to find $14.4 million and trim 224 jobs from school budgets by next September.

Note the key point above; they will eliminate jobs; not fire teachers. Firing somebody means telling somebody they no longer have a job. But with an organization as big as the CBE they would have to have a turnover of more than 224 teachers per year. (Probably at least that many from retirement alone.) So what this means is they won't be hiring as many new teachers as they would like.

[spotthefan]

So many issues here to discuss. I am a teacher, I do not work for the Calgary Board.

1. The Calgary Board is very mismanaged top down and have made poor decision in the past on staffing, building, etc.

2. The province has underfunded education based on their 'goals' for reforming education. When money follows students you handcuff schools who have students move in after the October 30 transfer (of funds) deadline. When you don't have enough money being put in, you end up with larger class sizes with very diverse needs and less support.

3. SmartBoards are not unnecessary tools. I use them every day. In fact it is all I use. Added to that, technology that is integrated is crucial to student learning.

4. Education Philosophy. If anything is outdated it is the use of text books. They have their place in education, however the shift is to move away from paper copy text books that are made by former teachers and not experts in the field. There is a shift in what "education" is with the it phrase being "21st century learner." In reality the 21st century learner is not all that different. They don't relate to textbooks as much as they do a computer screen. Also the acceptance is that rather than teaching students the information you are teaching students how to attain the information, since it is so readily available. If you think that you can give an 9 year old a computer and ask them google and find the answer to a question, you will be very frustrated.

5. Curriculum concepts are old, horribly structured and in need of change.

6. Only place where we can affect the social structure of the future. Why do you think there is such a huge apathy when it comes to voting between 18 - 40 year olds? Because social action, social conscience and global view was not developed for these people while in school.

7. Teachers will not be replaced. The way teachers teach will change (which it has over the last thousand years many times.

8. There are very few professions in which everyone believes they can do a better job and receive such intense scrutiny. But there is nothing like having a life changing teacher.

9. Eliminating the union would not be beneficial to the school system. The ATA is the only thing right now powerful enough to keep the government accountable to teachers, parents, and most importantly students. If you think the opposition parties in Alberta are keeping the government from cutting more, you are terribly mistaken. There are issues within the system just like anything else...but the benefits outweigh the detriments.

[spotthefan]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I was going to ask the same question; as nothing I have heard talks about firing any teachers; never mind that many.

With two trustees abstaining because a Calgary Board of Education lawyer had advised them they were in a conflict of interest, the board voted unanimously in favour of a new administration plan to find $14.4 million and trim 224 jobs from school budgets by next September.

Note the key point above; they will eliminate jobs; not fire teachers. Firing somebody means telling somebody they no longer have a job. But with an organization as big as the CBE they would have to have a turnover of more than 224 teachers per year. (Probably at least that many from retirement alone.) So what this means is they won't be hiring as many new teachers as they would like.

You are not wrong....however there will be teachers let go because there are not enough retirements for those already hired as temporary or substitute to fill.

[pylon]

I certainly agree with a lot of points with going to learn in a classroom environment, however, for a kid like myself, I also learned what it was like to get picked on day in, day out, and that was probably the biggest reasons for my failures. I dreaded going there, as I knew I would be tormented by the "popular" kids.

A big problem in that equation too, is the fact that teachers when they see a kid like I was, do nothing to help, and sometimes partake in the bullying. I actually had a retired teacher tearfully apologize to me 10 years ago for the treatment I recieved. That teacher, cornered me after school called me a pimple faced, snot nosed, punk loser, that will never amount to more than a burger flipper, and that, and I quote "was burning to death, he wouldn't piss on me to put the fire out." I went to the principle at EP Scarlett with this, and they told me I was lying, and he would never say that. I dropped out 2 days later, as a direct result and was that loser for quite a few years until I fought my way through the workforce. The system had failed, and I had nowhere left to turn.

I happened to run into him at Peanuts pub when I was 27, right after I had collected an award from the MDA as the top VW salesman in the city in that same hotel. I told him, I dropped out because of what you said, and struggled for a lot of years as a result. You violated the trust that should be between a teacher in student, and in my eyes, failed the system that was supposed to be there to help me. Once you told me you couldn't give 2 craps, I knew I was destined too fail. While I may not be a doctor or a scholar, I am the best at what I do, and made the most of the cards I was dealt, without the help of you or your colleagues. The public school system shares absolutely NOTHING in my successes, in fact it set me back probably 5 years.

I have honestly never seen a man look so remorseful in my life. He broke down and apologized and said he vividly remembers the incident, and felt bad, yet couldn't apologize as it could have resulted in him being reprimanded or even fired. A lot of help that did for me dickwad. Even after he knew I had dropped out, the guy refused to extend the olive branch.

What he and the system failed to realize was my behavioural issues were centred around the fact that I was constantly bullied, and in defense mode every minute I was at school. Outside of school, I was just a normal kid that liked cars and sports. But when I showed up there, I was the dirty jew kid, with acne, a teenage mother sister who I constantly had to stick up for, and had a lot of anger as a result.... with public school system did NOTHING to help me, or protect me, and I went to a pretty decent school. Teachers fall into the bullying trap just like a lot of students, or a lot of the time just look the other way.

Was I an angel, certainly not... did I derserve that treatment as a 16 year old kid with a really messed up home life at the time.... not in a million years.

[Savvy27]

nvm

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I was going to ask the same question; as nothing I have heard talks about firing any teachers; never mind that many.

With two trustees abstaining because a Calgary Board of Education lawyer had advised them they were in a conflict of interest, the board voted unanimously in favour of a new administration plan to find $14.4 million and trim 224 jobs from school budgets by next September.

Note the key point above; they will eliminate jobs; not fire teachers. Firing somebody means telling somebody they no longer have a job. But with an organization as big as the CBE they would have to have a turnover of more than 224 teachers per year. (Probably at least that many from retirement alone.) So what this means is they won't be hiring as many new teachers as they would like.

Yeah, when I saw the title of the thread, my first thought was did they find this many teachers viewing inappropriate web content at work that they're getting fired. Jobs being cut and being fired is pretty different.

[tanguay'sstillgood]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I was going to ask the same question; as nothing I have heard talks about firing any teachers; never mind that many.

With two trustees abstaining because a Calgary Board of Education lawyer had advised them they were in a conflict of interest, the board voted unanimously in favour of a new administration plan to find $14.4 million and trim 224 jobs from school budgets by next September.

Note the key point above; they will eliminate jobs; not fire teachers. Firing somebody means telling somebody they no longer have a job. But with an organization as big as the CBE they would have to have a turnover of more than 224 teachers per year. (Probably at least that many from retirement alone.) So what this means is they won't be hiring as many new teachers as they would like.

You're right...but how the job losses come about has doesn't really matter to most people. The public isn't mad out of concern for the teachers that would lose a job. The impact (i.e. class sizes - seems to be the biggest issue I'm seeing) is the issue for most people I think.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by tanguay'sstillgood

The impact (i.e. class sizes - seems to be the biggest issue I'm seeing) is the issue for most people I think.

Agreed. And I just think it's better to discuss that aspect instead of unions, benefits, etc.

[koop]

Originally Posted by pylon

I certainly agree with a lot of points with going to learn in a classroom environment, however, for a kid like myself, I also learned what it was like to get picked on day in, day out, and that was probably the biggest reasons for my failures. I dreaded going there, as I knew I would be tormented by the "popular" kids.

A big problem in that equation too, is the fact that teachers when they see a kid like I was, do nothing to help, and sometimes partake in the bullying. I actually had a retired teacher tearfully apologize to me 10 years ago for the treatment I recieved. That teacher, cornered me after school called me a pimple faced, snot nosed, punk loser, that will never amount to more than a burger flipper, and that, and I quote "was burning to death, he wouldn't piss on me to put the fire out." I went to the principle at EP Scarlett with this, and they told me I was lying, and he would never say that. I dropped out 2 days later, as a direct result and was that loser for quite a few years until I fought my way through the workforce. The system had failed, and I had nowhere left to turn.

I happened to run into him at Peanuts pub when I was 27, right after I had collected an award from the MDA as the top VW salesman in the city in that same hotel. I told him, I dropped out because of what you said, and struggled for a lot of years as a result. You violated the trust that should be between a teacher in student, and in my eyes, failed the system that was supposed to be there to help me. Once you told me you couldn't give 2 craps, I knew I was destined too fail. While I may not be a doctor or a scholar, I am the best at what I do, and made the most of the cards I was dealt, without the help of you or your colleagues. The public school system shares absolutely NOTHING in my successes, in fact it set me back probably 5 years.

I have honestly never seen a man look so remorseful in my life. He broke down and apologized and said he vividly remembers the incident, and felt bad, yet couldn't apologize as it could have resulted in him being reprimanded or even fired. A lot of help that did for me dickwad. Even after he knew I had dropped out, the guy refused to extend the olive branch.

What he and the system failed to realize was my behavioural issues were centred around the fact that I was constantly bullied, and in defense mode every minute I was at school. Outside of school, I was just a normal kid that liked cars and sports. But when I showed up there, I was the dirty jew kid, with acne, a teenage mother sister who I constantly had to stick up for, and had a lot of anger as a result.... with public school system did NOTHING to help me, or protect me, and I went to a pretty decent school. Teachers fall into the bullying trap just like a lot of students, or a lot of the time just look the other way.

Was I an angel, certainly not... did I derserve that treatment as a 16 year old kid with a really messed up home life at the time.... not in a million years.

That's terrible, but your answer to that is to eliminate public school?? You had a bad experience and some bad teachers, but there are also plenty of people who had great teachers and great experiences in public school, so maybe a better idea would be to eliminate crappy teachers rather than scrapping public school in favor of home/online school.

[spotthefan]

Originally Posted by pylon

I certainly agree with a lot of points with going to learn in a classroom environment, however, for a kid like myself, I also learned what it was like to get picked on day in, day out, and that was probably the biggest reasons for my failures. I dreaded going there, as I knew I would be tormented by the "popular" kids.

A big problem in that equation too, is the fact that teachers when they see a kid like I was, do nothing to help, and sometimes partake in the bullying.

Was I an angel, certainly not... did I derserve that treatment as a 16 year old kid with a really messed up home life at the time.... not in a million years.

I certainly cannot fathom having to go through torture like that. However, I would wish to believe that it is the work of troubled individuals rather than "teachers in general."

I have devoted my very short career thus far to making sure students in my class are safe and free of this torturous feeling.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by koop

That's terrible, but your answer to that is to eliminate public school??

God no, I am just presenting the other side of it, and how the public system can be a complete and utter failure as well. Alot of teachers walk around like they are these saints and saviours amongst society working for peanuts and giving up so much to embetter our youth.

Firstly, a tenured teacher in the public system makes a very healthy living. Many of them over $90,000/yr. These people are not living in 1 bedroom apartments over a bowling alley, with a collection of dusty old books, and driving a 20 year old Volvo like television seems to depict. This notion that Alberta teachers are underpaid for a profession that offers them 8 weeks in guaranteed holidays anually is silly. Take the 8 weeks out, and get the standard 2 or 3 weeks most professions allow for, and there is a huge chunk of teachers that would be earning 100k if you prorated the holiday time.

Secondly, a TON of them take on the profession for the amount of time off they get, job security, and union protection...nothing more. I have had this discussion with numerous teachers, and some of them are almost smug about their summers off.

Here us the ATA pay grid:
http://www.ataloc55.ab.ca/assets/files/Grid_2011.pdf

Maybe if they want to reduce classroom sizes, they should look at taking some pay concessions. You sometimes can't have the best of both worlds. We needed to give a couple guys in my company a raise, and to do so, my department had to make a concession and take a pay cut. What makes teachers immune to having to be sensible, and budget conscious.... oh wait, a union.

[Sr. Mints]

Originally Posted by Beerfest

There are other imporant things you gain from going to school besides math, science, etc, imo.
Social skills, frienships, recess, etc.

I failed miserably at those.

[tanguay'sstillgood]

Originally Posted by pylon

God no, I am just presenting the other side of it, and how the public system can be a complete and utter failure as well. Alot of teachers walk around like they are these saints and saviours amongst society working for peanuts and giving up so much to embetter our youth.

Firstly, a tenured teacher in the public system makes a very healthy living. Many of them over $90,000/yr. These people are not living in 1 bedroom apartments over a bowling alley, with a collection of dusty old books, and driving a 20 year old Volvo like television seems to depict. This notion that Alberta teachers are underpaid for a profession that offers them 8 weeks in guaranteed holidays anually is silly. Take the 8 weeks out, and get the standard 2 or 3 weeks most professions allow for, and there is a huge chunk of teachers that would be earning 100k if you prorated the holiday time.

Secondly, a TON of them take on the profession for the amount of time off they get, job security, and union protection...nothing more. I have had this discussion with numerous teachers, and some of them are almost smug about their summers off.

Here us the ATA pay grid:
http://www.ataloc55.ab.ca/assets/files/Grid_2011.pdf

Maybe if they want to reduce classroom sizes, they should look at taking some pay concessions. You sometimes can't have the best of both worlds. We needed to give a couple guys in my company a raise, and to do so, my department had to make a concession and take a pay cut. What makes teachers immune to having to be sensible, and budget conscious.... oh wait, a union.

It's nice to see a thread about teachers could be turned into bitching about greedy, lazy, overpaid/underworked whiners. That hardly ever happens on here.

So, I'll say what I usually say to rants like these....if the job is that cushy, you should find a way to get in on it.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by THE SCUD

No offense, but that is a line I hear from the 'unintelligent' quite often. It's a bit of the old inferiority complex. I am not saying that applies to you, of course - just that the arguement is usd by those without an education as a crutch.

For instance, I once knew a welder in town who I believe to be borderline mentally-######ed who would say he learnt more about how to be an engihneeer while welding than real engineers did at school.

The argument that one can self teach is inhertently flawed.

Now that's not to say I don't agree with what you're saying at some level - online learning has some merit.

However, the main advantage of the school setting as it is now, and something students need

A) to suceed in life
and
2) to grow as people

is the social aspect of school life.

Without rehashing an old thread in it's entirety, I will simply respond with this.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...2&postcount=57

I deeply regret not pursuing a proper education, and you are right, I probably am not the sharpest knife the drawer. But I never use my lack of education as a crutch. I am what I am, and I do quite well for myself, but public school did nothing to help or prepare me. Life experience, and survival instinct did.

Looking back now, I should have just sucked it up, and took the abuse, but try explaining to a 16 year old kid to keep showing up to get picked on daily by his peers, will help him succeed in life, or grow as a person. All it did was make me suicidal.

My industry is full of guys like me that have similar stories. The car business is to men what being a cocktail waitress is to women... at least it was. It was a place where guys with limited educations, could make a really good and in some cases an exceptional living, with no real education. Even that is falling by the wayside, as more and more university grads are applying all the time.

Don't think I sit back, and think I am smarter than the world... f no. During extended family gatherings, I feel like I have shamed a family full of professionals and university grads. Lawyers, doctors, musicians, professors.... car loan guy...lol. At least it has the word Finance in the title... makes the Jewish side of the family sorta understand what I do.

However, some of us do actually learn better on our own. Had I had the option back then, I am sure I would have made it through.

[CampbellsTransgressions]

I wonder how much elementary schools waste on textbooks. Teachers can do the teaching without textbooks and I'm sure most kids that age aren't reading textbooks to learn. Practice problems are pretty easy to come up with too.

[Sr. Mints]

Any word when the teachers who are to be let go will be notified?

[arloiginla]

It is virtually impossible for education grads to get a job.

For those of you who are saying, jobs haven't really been cut, that isn't the case.

The teachers whose jobs have been cut are released back into the "pool," which is basically a group of teachers who are certified and employed by the CBE but will only be substitute teachers unless they land a temporary or maternity leave position.

A few years ago, grads basically had their pick of full-time jobs. They skipped being in the "pool" and went straight to full time. Now, it is impossible because former full-timers are back in the pool, making the pool too big. When jobs do open up, you can bet experienced teachers will be given priority to those positions as opposed to the grads which is only fair of course.

I just graduated and wasn't even hired to be in the pool along with many of my colleagues - they just can't make the pool much bigger...plus subbing one day a month with the CBE isn't going to pay the bills.

It seems very cyclical, few years ago there was a major teacher shortage and now Alberta in particular is flooded with teachers. Many people I know moved from B.C. and other places to take the ed program in Calgary because they figured they'd have a better shot at a job here.

Now, you'll see a lot of grads moving back away to other places (myself included) and in another half a decade I bet there will be a growing demand for teachers again.

Seems we all graduated at the wrong time.

[Yanda]

Poor Teachers

There already poorly compensated for the amount of work they put in after hours.

Ive seen countless evenings of my mom marking essays or tests or doing IPP's, report cards, parent teacher interviews and countless meetings.

Therefore I think teachers are properly compensated but without having enough staff its alot harder for them to do there job... who watches the kids at recess or when there getting on this buses? Teachers Aids and Councilers are needed to keep a school running efficently.

Just how many schools are there in Calgary?

[CrusaderPi]

Originally Posted by Yanda

Poor Teachers

There already poorly compensated for the amount of work they put in after hours.

Ive seen countless evenings of my mom marking essays or tests or doing IPP's, report cards, parent teacher interviews and countless meetings.

Therefore I think teachers are properly compensated but without having enough staff its alot harder for them to do there job... who watches the kids at recess or when there getting on this buses? Teachers Aids and Councilers are needed to keep a school running efficently.

Just how many schools are there in Calgary?

They also get 2 weeks at Christmas, 7 weeks over summer, spring break and a "professional [s[]drinking[/s] development day every third week. So as crappy as "marking essays or tests or doing IPP's, report cards, parent teacher interviews and countless meetings" may be, the compensation is pretty damn good.

And by the way, this isn't Houston. No one is holding a gun to their head. If the 10 weeks off, benefits and salary aren't good enough they are welcome to find something better.

[Deegee]

Originally Posted by Yanda

Poor Teachers

There already poorly compensated for the amount of work they put in after hours.

No, they aren't. I know several teachers that seem to have lots of work to do after hours because they always wait until the bitter end to mark or plan anything. If they time managed better they wouldn't have the issue.

They also make upwards of $90,000 even in smaller communities where the cost of living is very low in comparison to larger centers and they continue to get salary increases during recessionary times (which is generally unheard of) due to being union workers.