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Old 04-01-2011, 12:02 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by peter12 View Post
Well, the Whip is pretty important. I say all votes should be free, except budget votes.
Why is he important? From what I've seen he is just there to enforce the will of the party leader on the party members. If his role was merely one of negotiation I could see him being a positive.
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Old 04-01-2011, 12:09 PM   #22
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So what was the deal with Chretien's tenure then? Didn't see much 'democracy' going on.
The CBC, the professor in question and all the members of this "circle" were kept fat and happy, so democracy wasn't as important back then...
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Old 04-01-2011, 12:32 PM   #23
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The CBC, the professor in question and all the members of this "circle" were kept fat and happy, so democracy wasn't as important back then...
Get real, it's been a known problem for years now, whether you lean left or right.
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Old 04-01-2011, 12:38 PM   #24
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Get real, it's been a known problem for years now, whether you lean left or right.
Yes, I know. But when it was the liberals in charge, these people weren't complaining. They are only complaining because their party in not in charge.
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Old 04-01-2011, 12:52 PM   #25
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So . . . . . uh, vote 'em out if its a problem.

Ultimately, the mechanisms within the democracy remain in place to have a remedy if the common man/woman feels the style of governance, which is really what we're talking about, is a problem.

"The resulting diminution of the role and status of cabinet, parliaments and parliamentarians" and the "diminuation of democracy" are probably two separate topics and don't have to be related.

It's not like Chretien wasn't a mini-dictator either.

Petty dictator Harper and his slate of drones are in front of the polls right now. Make a change if that's your bent.

Good grief.

Whiny Liberal homo's.

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You're missing the point of the article.

Obviously voting him out would be the thing to do if you disagree with his actions or policies, but the article is about Canadians being too apathetic toward politics in their own country and not caring enough about what is happening in government. This can be said about what any part does or is doing.
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Old 04-01-2011, 01:10 PM   #26
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Old 04-01-2011, 01:20 PM   #27
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You're missing the point of the article.

Obviously voting him out would be the thing to do if you disagree with his actions or policies, but the article is about Canadians being too apathetic toward politics in their own country and not caring enough about what is happening in government. This can be said about what any part does or is doing.
It may be the population is happy with the status quo and the system as it currently functions and the lack of reaction to his points isn't related in any way to apathy.

Its merely his interpretation that apathy exists in this circumstance or the circumstance of the Chretien years.

As I noted, "The resulting diminution of the role and status of cabinet, parliaments and parliamentarians" and the "diminuation of democracy" are probably two separate topics and don't have to be related.

People do genuinely get hot and bothered in a democracy if they feel its important to them.

I would say the professor wants every Canadian to be as interested in the topic as he is and that's unrealistic. That would change rapidly, sometimes overnight, if there was a reason the majority felt merited the attention.

Personally, I see the rationale behind the Harper method of governance . . . . . . keeping everyone on message and appearing to speak with one voice is tactically smart because it gives very few openings for the opposition or media to pounce on.

Most parties would want to practice it as efficiently as the Tories do, just as most businesses have policies in place for public contact in the same manner.

Canadians have always liked boring governments, one that's barely noticeable in their daily lives, but . . . . . . we, the garden variety man, also stop on ET Canada and pick up People Magazine because that's also who we are. Scandal has always been a big seller and we are all voyeurs for disaster at heart. That's good for a Hollywood starlet but, for political parties, "all news is good news" is not true.

Keeping your party on a single message is simply smart tactically.

As long as the mechanisms are in place for orderly transition, however, where the common man can make a choice as to preference, then the professors claims are overblown.

And don't mistake contentment with apathy.

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Old 04-01-2011, 01:38 PM   #28
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Yes, I know. But when it was the liberals in charge, these people weren't complaining. They are only complaining because their party in not in charge.
And back then the Conservatives complained (as they should)...there is rampant Homerism...I believe if a Liberal PM was in power and was acting like Harper, conservatives would be frothing...its depressing

All I have to say is that Harper has really fallen down on making government transparent and accountable. Which is what is needed whether you are Liberal, Conservative or other.
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